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Trying to understand sheltie colors/breeding..

Discussion in 'Sheltie Colors' started by Minniesmom15, Sep 22, 2013.

  1. Minniesmom15

    Minniesmom15 Forums Regular

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    Wi
    I've been trying to research this online but can't find anywhere that it's explained clearly.

    Sable to sable will only produce sable, correct?

    My first puppy was from a blue merlexbi black cross, resulting in three black tris, two blue merles, and I think one bi blue. With that cross is there a chance of any blue or black color?
    My next puppy will likely be from a bi bluexbi black cross, what colors are possible in that litter?
    What is possible when you cross a sable with a blue or black dog?
    Thanks, and if you have any helpful sites that explain this feel free to post!
     
  2. HopeShelties

    HopeShelties Forums Enthusiast

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    http://www.athro.com/sheltie.html
    It's not quite that simple. You may want to play with this and see what all possible results you can get from crossing each particular color
     
  3. Calliesmom

    Calliesmom Moderator

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    I can answer the bi to bi breeding- only biblack and biblue are possible there.

    the next one depends on the sable and the blue/black dog....
    Cranberry and Dixie are from blue merle mother and a tri-factored sable father- so out of 7 puppies, there were 2 sables, 1 sable merle, 1 blue merle and 3 tris.
    so even if the mother was a bi-factored blue merle, if the father did not also have the bi gene, there wouldn't be any bi colored puppies.
    and just because one parent is a merle, doesn't necessarily mean any puppies will be merled.......

    so to your first question of sable to sable- that depends on the sables
    Two pure for sable will only produce sables. Two tri-factored sables can have sables and tricolors. Two bi-factored sables can have sables and biblacks.

    your first puppy- to have biblack or biblue in that litter, the blue merle would have had to be bi-factored- so one of its parents would have had to be biblack or biblue.
     
  4. Minniesmom15

    Minniesmom15 Forums Regular

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    Thank you!! It is so confusing to me :no: but that is very helpful. So only bi colors are possible with two bi parents? That is pretty cool, crossing my fingers for a bi blue for my next pup :smile2:
     
  5. Tabitha

    Tabitha Forums Enthusiast

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  6. Calliesmom

    Calliesmom Moderator

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    yes- to be a bi you have to have gotten bi from both parents so if both parents are bi- that's all that there is to give to puppies.
    now adding merle- doesn't guarantee that any of the puppies will be merles.
    statistically, 25% merle and 75% non but you need a decent sample size for this to occur - in actual litters, there usually aren't that many puppies to get the breakdown.

    a recent litter that I know of- merle father and tri mother- 3 tri pups and 1 merle so that's pretty close to the statistics but I also think that's pretty rare for it to happen like that......
     
  7. Justicemom

    Justicemom Forums Celebrity

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    My bi blue girl Ember was from a Blue Merle Male and a Sable Female. Obviously both parents were bi factored. In Ember's litter 2 sable merles, 2 bi blues and a Sable.
     
  8. Tabitha

    Tabitha Forums Enthusiast

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    Shelli, I know sable merles are considered a falt in AKC. So why do even reputable breeders breed sables and merles together?:confused2:
     
  9. Tabitha

    Tabitha Forums Enthusiast

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  10. Justicemom

    Justicemom Forums Celebrity

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    Sable Merle is not a fault per say in AKC. Sable merles can be shown. Blue eyes in a sable merle and washed out self coloring are faults.

    There have been many Sable Merle champions. Many people however do not like the color and the pedigrees of AOAC and Sables tend to be quite different so most people tend to not do these breedings.
     

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