Won't Stay Unless Engaged

[corbinam]

Originally Posted by HopeShelties

In addition to what others are saying, bring a crate instead of putting her in a down while you aren't paying attention to her at least for now so she can't do as she pleases. If you aren't able to actively work it, you're going to inevitably be letting her get away with this behavior. It's kind of like come when you are teaching it- unless you know 100% sure the dog is come it shouldn't be off lead, and the under 100% should be on a long line to enforce what is being asked.

Yes--that is a good point. Trouble is she barks in a crate if she can see what's going on. Or at least she did a couple years ago. Might be worth a shot to try it again, though.

[corbinam]

Originally Posted by Toffee's Mom

i assume she got enforced more for not staying aka she may prefer the attention even over the treats?
I don't think she understands exactly what your criteria is, you may have inadvertently rewarded her each time you rewarded her by going back to her...
have you tired throwing the treats? I also did that when I need him to stay on the mat

I am uploading some pics of the manners minder, so u can see, they don't have to get up out of a down to get the reward
Right now I am using it to get Toffee to put his dead down and be relaxed... while in an arousing environment... still in progress tho lol

Yes, I think she prefers the attention. Plus I think she understands (maybe I'm giving her too much credit) that if she doesn't do it right, I'll come back, correct her, and then we start the process again where she gets treats more often.

I can throw treats, but again, once I get at a certain distance, she gets up, and I can't throw treats from that far away (my aim is good, but not that good!)

[3Stars]

Manners Minders are fantastic - we have one too. They are also good for rewarding her for being quiet in her crate - you just take the lip off so they roll right into the crate, or you can put them on a timed reward system. They are also very useful for increasing distance and independence in agility, so it may be a good investment for you. The cheapest price I found was at entirelypets.com (free shipping + if you do a search for a coupon code you can get more $ off).

[HopeShelties]

Station someone at her crate to spray her if she starts barking, or cover her up with a sheet. Spray Brandon's little heathen diva dog has gotten her under control. He thought it was funny and let her get away with it and it created a monster.

[Toffee's Mom]

Originally Posted by HopeShelties

Station someone at her crate to spray her if she starts barking, or cover her up with a sheet. Spray Brandon's little heathen diva dog has gotten her under control. He thought it was funny and let her get away with it and it created a monster.

lol, no fooling around with you, eh? ;)

that would make Toffee completely shut down, and some heartier dog I assume would get frustrated and bark at the spray, lol

[HopeShelties]

It was the only thing that would stop her. There was nothing else that would get her to stop charging the expen when I would close it, and she would bark incessantly while working other dogs.

[*Caro]

Sounds like Deska too - except he was barking and crawling across the ground if he was in a drop stay. I made the mistake of going back to treat when he stayed, but that made it worse because all he wanted was my attention and going back to treat reinforced that (if I left it too long he would try all sorts of things to get my attention).

The only thing I have found helped was doing a short training session before putting him in a stay or in the crate at a trial. I don't know if it is because he realises he is working or because it satisfied his need for my attention, but he can last for ages without breaking a stay now. And he will even let me run a course with Tully without a peep.

One other thing too - I have to keep my hands up (not by my side) because he reacts to my hand movements if I have my hands lowered. Someone else picked that up and its been very helpful - maybe get someone to watch her and see if she is reacting to your movements.