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Need some DW feedback

Discussion in 'Agility' started by k9kreationz, Apr 16, 2012.

  1. k9kreationz

    k9kreationz Forums Celebrity

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    I was wondering if you'd give me some opinions on the cause and training to fix an issue I'm having.

    Koji has been doing great on his 2o2o DW contacts. If you recall, he had a running (not trained) then I started training a 4-on, but since that wasn't working, many people suggested a 2o2o since the criteria is easier for the dog to understand. So, that's what I've been training and we've been doing awesome!

    Here's an issue I see creeping into his contacts. He's stopping short. So he's basically 4-on and sometimes anywhere from 6-12" from the bottom. This past weekend I waited him out and instead of going into a 2o2o, he bounced off. AUGH!

    I've been told when he does something like this that he doesn't understand the 2o2o criteria. But I know he does, I just noticed that he slowly has been reverting to a 4-on and stupid me hadn't fixed it fast enough.

    First, thoughts on why he's stopping so early. Do you think it's because he doesn't understand the 2o2o criteria? Or something else?

    Second, how do I fix it? Do I just do a quickie back to square one, so I retrain the 2o2o and ingrain in his little brain that he's supposed to stop in that position?

    Lastly, I did notice that his 2o2o DW has been translating to the Teeter. Problem is, he stops in a 4-on on the teeter then walks into a 2o2o. Do you think that could be the reason why he's stopping early?

    Thoughts? And thanks. I haven't taken this to my trainer yet, but I think in the meantime, I will retrain from the beginning again to remind him what he's supposed to be doing.
     
  2. corbinam

    corbinam Moderator

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    As you noticed in my videos, Bentley is doing the same thing. And we NEVER trained a 4-on. I think it's confusion on the criteria.

    I know it's not really perfect training, but in Bentley's case I train for 2o2o, and allow mistakes at trials. This does NOT work for every person or every dog. So, if he gets a 4-on at a trial, I will ask him a couple times to touch. If he still doesn't get it, we move on. If he gets a 2o2o, he gets a reward marker. I don't want to correct him, pull him, or even mark it as incorrect in a trial because I know the confusion is based from my training.

    We just go back to square one and reinforce the 2o2o in class/at home. He gets good at it, and then in a trial as the days go on it gets worse. But then we train again. For him, it's 2 steps forward, 1 step back, and I'm okay with that because we're still moving forward (he's not leaping).
     
  3. Silaria

    Silaria Forums Sage

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    Retrain... well, more reenforce the correct behavior over and over again. Edan's done this also and I made the mistake of accepting it. Unfortunately, like you, I had to retrain the behavior I wanted on the contacts; especially on the A-Frame. Even though Edan's contacts are much more consistent, I still randomly reward him for the correct 2o2o in training.

    I get the feeling with Koji that you really aren't going to be able to let up on the training at all. It feels like he needs the constant reinforcement of the behavior.
     
  4. SheltieChe

    SheltieChe Forums Sage

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    oh, I was wondering about that when I read your PDF file, I printed it out and like everything but few things and I just thought to myself... he is going to start creeping ...
    Will reread your papers and talk to you later. It relates to you saying No to him
     
  5. ortegah

    ortegah Forums Enthusiast

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    With Trax we had to go back to basics and do target training. He would stop WAY short and then jump off the side. In class or at home I would be in position but in competition I was always behind him and so he had no clue where to be. So I started with targets. Once I could toss the target across the room and he'd go find it and stick his nose to it, then I started putting it at the bottom of my contacts and then staying behind the obstacle to teach him to go ahead to the bottom, find it and get the treat. It took only a few weeks of doing it over and over again and now he has almost perfect contacts. Every now and then I have to remind him during a gamblers or fast course and stick him back on it, but he's been really good about it now.
     
  6. Sharon

    Sharon Forums Sage

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    Dogwalk

    Just curious but didn't you post awhile back you weren't going to do Standard because you were working on proofing his DW contacts and then you put him in an ASCA trial because you could train?Now you are having problems again?:gaah
     
  7. k9kreationz

    k9kreationz Forums Celebrity

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    Thanks Ashley.

    I think for Koji, allowing it may not be a good thing. I think I will add in his target/touch again so that if it does happen at trial, I can ask him to touch. I rarely used a target, but now I'm seeing where it can be beneficial. It's hard to get a dog to the end of the plank, if he already thinks he's in the right spot (I tried repeating my commands and that didn't help, he lied down - this was at home).

    I definitely think I"m in the same place as you. 2 wonderful amazing steps forward, 1 step back. But you're right, so far, Koji has been great about not leaping. And when he has, I already knew he would due to his anxiety/excitement levels.
     
  8. k9kreationz

    k9kreationz Forums Celebrity

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    I agree. More training/reinforcement.

    He may need it constantly, but honestly, I'm not too sure. Usually, when he gets something, he's solid. I just don't think we're there yet. I would say check back with me in a year and if I'm still training a few times a week, then yes, I'll have to do it forever :gaah. If not, thank gawd! LOL.

    Reminder to self. Do not accept it and reinforce the 2o2o.
     
  9. k9kreationz

    k9kreationz Forums Celebrity

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    I should re-read my training plan. I haven't in awhile because I was on the proofing part. Need to keep on top of my darn plan and training! I know this is mostly my own fault. But dangit, this training stuff is not easy, LOL. Got your PM, I'll respond there.
     
  10. k9kreationz

    k9kreationz Forums Celebrity

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    Yup, I'm thinking this is the way to go for me. When I retrained his 2o2o, I didn't use a target plate really. As I said to Ashley, I see where it's beneficial now. Especially for reminders.

    Just curious, how long did it take you go get Trax pretty darn consistent?
     

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