Rescue vs. buying from a breeder?

[ClantyreSheltie]

I know someone that put an OTCH on a dog her sister back yard bred. He had some issues that she worked through, but he was a lovely little dog. Then she got a dog from a "good" ASSA member breeder. Waited on a list forever. vWD affected, two surgical luxating patellas, retained testicle, and lance canines. Awesome huh? She put an OTCH on him (and we thought seriously about posting his pedigree in an ad in one of the glossy Sheltie magazines) and he never showed again. Best I can tell, he's still alive, which is saying something for a vWD affected dog.

Long story short, unless you are super specific in what you are looking for, you can get good and not-as-good dogs from both rescue and breeders.

Also, a little pet-peeve of mine. A dog is not a rescue if it came back to the breeder as an adult and was placed again. It's just not. You simply bought an adult dog from a breeder. I know a breeder that called her own dog a rescue after he came back to her (she kept him). No. It's your dog, he's just back.

[mcemily]

Lots of great advice given already. I definitely think that if you are going to go the rescue route, you should get involved with a local rescue now, as a volunteer, and then as a foster, before you try to bring home that "forever" rescue pup. Like someone else said, if you can foster, it's like a "dating" period to see how that dog fits into your household... and if it doesn't fit in, you aren't stuck in a "do I keep the dog or send it back into rescue" dilemma. It also lets you get a taste for how much work you'll have to put in to own that particular rescue dog (because each one is different and will have different needs). Shelties can be a challenging breed to own under the best of circumstances. Choosing a Sheltie as your first dog is definitely diving into the deep end... and I should know, since that's exactly what my husband and I did! Speaking as a first-time dog owner (not counting the Family Dogs we had as kids, of course), I can say now with great confidence that if we had gone the rescue route, we would have been completely overwhelmed.

To be fair, our local Sheltie rescue won't even consider any applicants without a fully fenced yard, so we were out the running immediately. Therefore, rescuing was never a serious option for us, though it was the first place we looked when we were originally looking for a Sheltie. Like you, we were hoping to get a great dog that had already gone through that difficult puppy phase (especially the housebreaking). We were hoping that for a small fee and a happy, loving home, we could get a happy, healthy dog who came with all the basic training covered. Even though we didn't have a fenced yard, I continued to watch the rescue site, figuring that we could put in a fence if the right dog came along and made it worthwhile... Well, in the year+ I watched that website, they never had one single "easy" dog come through. Every dog had serious health and/or emotional issues. I knew my husband and I, as dog novices, would not be able to give a "Special Needs" dog the care it would need to thrive... not even considering the cost of ongoing health issues.

At that point I started to seek out a reputable breeder, and I've been so pleased with the results. Yes, we had to do all that puppy phase stuff. Housebreaking wasn't as easy for us as it is for most of the folks on this forum, which was a bummer... but we got through it ok. And, as others have said, there is always the chance of adopting an older pup/dog from a breeder, who has already gone through the puppy phase and is either retiring from the breeding program, or was being "grown out" as a show prospect, but didn't end up "show quality" after all. This would be a "best of both worlds" scenario, really, as it would allow you to skip that difficult puppy stage, but also have the benefit of careful breeding and health guarantees.

If you do go the breeder route, as others have said, it is paramount to find a good breeder. Your local ASSA breeder referral would be able to point you in the right direction there, as others have said. If you are thinking of adopting an older puppy or adult dog from a breeder, I'd definitely make sure to find one whose dogs are pets as well as show dogs, as Tagg described her own dogs. I know there are some folks on this forum who have adopted retired show dogs, and these dogs are just as difficult to work with as some of the puppymill rescues, because the show dogs were never really part of the family, so they didn't have the social skills necessary to fit into the family easily.

Whichever route you choose, patience and diligence are key. You have to wait until the right dog comes along, you have to be diligent in training and socializing it to fit in with your family and lifestyle (and this is true regardless of the dog's age and origin), and you basically have to be willing/able to pay a fortune in vet bills in case the dog becomes poorly (again, regardless of dog's age/origin)... because as BarbV's case illustrates, even dogs from the best of bloodlines can be dealt a bad hand in the genetic department. Of course, a good breeder will offer a health guarantee, to either help defray the costs of treating a congenital issue, or offer to replace a dog who shows congenital issues, so if you do not want to take on that burden, you should not have to. Of course, the longer you have the dog before these issues crop up, the harder it will be to send it back, so bear that in mind as well!

[peanut-butter]

Another question...if I were to go with an older puppy which turned out not to be quite show quality, or particularly a retired show dog from a breeder, would there be differences in personality in the dog because it wasn't spayed or neutered at a young age? I think I'd prefer a male; typically, would a male dog neutered later in life spray or have any other personality or behavior differences?

[Pleatia]

Remember though,

You don't always get the dog you want but you always get the dog you need.

Both our rescue Shelties were a sight unseen in the beginning and I would not trade them for anything. They were meant to be in our family and that is that.

Thought is required when getting a dog and lots of it.

[Tagg]

Not necessarily. Tinsel was a stud dog and while he always checks the girls he meet out to see if they are in season he doesn't leg lift. I must admit, he hasn't met an in season girl since he came so I don't know if he would succumb to the instinctive behaviour if he did.
I kept bitches in tact until they were retired from breeding and you would never know they hadn't been spayed at 6 months. My male Belgian started out and lived his life as a house pet so neutering made no difference but had he been a kennel dog then moving into a household role would have been a bit more work. Even then, with the same diligence you would show a puppy in the teaching of house manners, most dogs will become clean but you have to be prepared to work just as hard. The accidents a larger too!
The plus of getting an adult from a good breeder is a lot of the teaching is done. They know how to walk on lead civilly, be groomed, be around other dogs and be handled, if they were shown or were being prepared to be shown. Depending on the age of the dog, there might have been some health tests done.
I don't know what the cost is there but here it is usually a little more expensive to neuter or spay an adult.
A good rescue can give you insights into the dog you might want to adopt. We've just had a couple of dogs come in from two different sources that have high drive but are wonderful, healthy, social dogs but that, sadly, the owners couldn't deal with. They are young whipper snappers and suitable to homes that want to do something other than have the dog go out to the yard for a pee and an occasional walk.
Decide on what you want from a dog and then go looking until you find it. Good luck to you in your search.

[PatC]

Originally Posted by peanut-butter

Another question...if I were to go with an older puppy which turned out not to be quite show quality, or particularly a retired show dog from a breeder, would there be differences in personality in the dog because it wasn't spayed or neutered at a young age? I think I'd prefer a male; typically, would a male dog neutered later in life spray or have any other personality or behavior differences?

I have a male retired show dog; he is not neutered. I got him at age 4; he's six now; zero problems. I consulted both a trainer and a vet about it, thinking neutering for males was essential; both said not necessarily. And the breeder believes it can cause health problems so, in the absence of problems, I'm leaving him as is. He is more enthusiastic and louder than my female, but I think he would be no matter what.

[BarbV]

I've kinda lost the trend of this thread, but going back to your additional question......

Bottom line....rescues is terrific if you are up for it. What's not to like about taking in a dog that needs a home!

Flip side, you may not be up for the challenge of a rescue. It does take a special kind of person to take one on.

And finally, just to confuse you further, a pedigree is no guarantee either as I know from my own personal experience. My poor pup was truly the dud of the litter, but all the rest are shining stars. It's just ones of those things....seems he got all the bad stuff, and his siblings all the good stuff. That being said, the rest of the litter was fantastic!

It really comes down to money and your personal ethics and personal situation. Personally, I don't don't that could commit to the needs of a shlerter dog. But that's just me. You need to make your own choices

[ClantyreSheltie]

Originally Posted by peanut-butter

would there be differences in personality in the dog because it wasn't spayed or neutered at a young age? I think I'd prefer a male; typically, would a male dog neutered later in life spray or have any other personality or behavior differences?

My 9 year old intact dog marks in the house. He has three favorite places, he hits one every few days. I mop it up. No big deal. He's the sweetest thing you have ever met, and loves people. He has no tolerance for puppies or dogs in his face, but I think that's just him, not anything to do with having testicles.

[Jaynie]

Originally Posted by peanut-butter

Another question...if I were to go with an older puppy which turned out not to be quite show quality, or particularly a retired show dog from a breeder, would there be differences in personality in the dog because it wasn't spayed or neutered at a young age? I think I'd prefer a male; typically, would a male dog neutered later in life spray or have any other personality or behavior differences?

My BYB Sheltie, Neechee, wasn't neutered until he was almost 4 years old. I've completely forgotten why I waited for so long, because I had him from the age of 6 weeks. His nickname before neutering was "Mr. Testosterone". He calmed down a little, but not enough to make a difference in his personality. He didn't really have a bad time with the surgery, but I believe they get over it sooner when they are younger. No male dog I've ever had has sprayed (if you mean like a male cat does). Dog "marking" is basically lifting his leg on things.

The only difference I've noticed in any of my male dogs is a tiny bit less tendency to nervousness - especially in my Sheltie. Temperament-wise, I don't think there is much difference between males & females. My boy had separation anxiety and enjoyed being an only dog with my undivided attention. My girl couldn't get along without her sister JRT, and tends to not be so much attached to me. But they each came from extremely different circumstances, so I can't be sure if that's due to nature or nurture.