Skyler bit the neighbor girl

[JessicaR]

Originally Posted by ClantyreSheltie

I think the key here is to understand that if you can't fix it, then you have to manage it. Throwing the dog out to avoid having to manage (your husbands plan) just smacks of lazy to me. Sorry.

I wouldnt say lazy per se, my hubby is not really an animal person, I am the crazy dog lady of the familiy His solution for any animal problem is dont have them. Plus he doesnt want a law suite, considering how sue happy people are now a days, his fears are not unjustified

I guess i am more or less just venting my frustrations that my dog could do something like this. I have always prided myself on having well behaved dogs, and it frustrates me when one doesnt act normal, but I guess shelties really arent normal.

I will manage him, and keep him seperate from company when they are leaving, and keep him inside when the girls are outside. He has no issues when they are there just when they try to go. The size of the chicken run isnt the problem as it is 10 ft. by 50 ft. its mostly mud right now, and I am too lazy to bathe him all the time, plus I dont want him eating chicken poop

[SheepOfBlue]

Originally Posted by ClantyreSheltie

It would take me longer to try to remember the acronyms than to just type the word out.

I just read them all the same: someone in the house I know

[Eagle]

I may be very wrong, I did not see it happen, but this sounds a lot like something a sheltie I used to have did. I always thought it was someone related to herding behavior - everything was fine until someone tried to leave. She would bark, spin in circles, jump up and down on you, and sometimes nip. It was defiantly a problem, but I don't believe her intention was viscous as all. It only happened with people she knew well. I don't think it was separation anxiety at all because she would do it even when other people were still home and she was fine as soon as the person was out the door.

Since you have kids in the house, and other kids coming over, I think you definitely need to be more careful that I needed to be but, in case this is at all helpful to you ..

What I did was toss a handful of kibble all over the floor away from the door as the person left. The dog went for the kibble and ignored the person. Part of what may have made that work is that I had a second dog also eating the kibble, so if she left it to go after the person leaving, the kibble would be gone. I don't know if the second dog helped or not. Maybe if you did this just with your own family it might help stop the behavior? With other people, I would make sure it can't happen, use a crate, another room, whatever.

Good Luck

[*Caro]

Originally Posted by ClantyreSheltie

But I question if it was really a "bite". Did the dog intend to inflict damage, or did his tooth run into her leg while he was in crazy mode? The fact that no blood was drawn leads me to believe that he didn't intend to inflict damage.

I agree, it sounds like he was barking and going silly and accidently the girls leg and his mouth made contact. Not that I'm saying it wasn't a really bad thing to happen, but it sounds like an unintentional incident - not aggression.

Originally Posted by JessicaR

I will manage him, and keep him seperate from company when they are leaving, and keep him inside when the girls are outside. He has no issues when they are there just when they try to go.

Deska does this as well. I was told by a behaviourist that it's an instinctive response. A sheepdog getting frustrated when one of the 'flock' is leaving. As far as Deska is concerned, once someone comes through the front door the are part of the flock.

Crating when anyone leaves will be the most effective and simplest way to prevent any more problems. Also keep a lead and collar handy near the door so if he isn't put in the crate he is at least on lead when someone leaves.

If you are dealing with instinct it is a very difficult behaviour to extinguish completely. So it's something you will regularly need to reinforce with training.

You can try desentising him to departures. Just go in and out, in and out the door until he gets sick of making a scene.

Also try taping the sound of the door opening and closing to desensitise him to that, play it over and over as background noise, esp while he's eating. If he's anything like Deska, even the sound of the door will put him on high alert so by the time someone goes through it he is in a highly emotive state already.

Avoid words like 'bye' or see ya' or any long departures. Ask people when they leave to just go straight outside - say your goodbyes well before getting ready to leave. Again this will reduce getting him into a heightened state before the departure.

One thing that works for Deska is a treasure hunt for food - it's a 'job' he considers higher value than stopping the flock leave. But it's very important that this type of thing is done in another room away from the front door, otherwise they will attempt to do both jobs at the same time. So if you are trying any techniques that involve food try doing it away from the front room.

[JessicaR]

Thanks for the suggestions I will try some of these... again! The only thing that really works is prevention. Which is something I need to enforce with the kids.

I have tried the opening and closing the door I think the problem with that is he is smart enough to know I am not really going anywhere. He now waits until i get half way down the sidewalk before he starts barking.

I have tried throwing treats, he either A eats them so fast that he still comes back barking or B he ignores the food and keeps going after them.

I have also tried to do things out of order so he doesnt associate certain triggers, didnt really matter to him, he now starts barking when I put my jacket on. He will stop when i tell him to though.

I dont think he is aggressive nor do I think he has SA he is fine once you get that inital leaving out of the way. His behaviour though is why at 9 y/o he is still crated. He would get so crazy that he would attck the other dogs if they was close to him.

I am still worried about the parents of the girl he bit. They asked my daughter yesterday if he had his rabies shot. I mean geesh!! I know what he did was wrong, but I dont think he ment to hurt her and he didnt break the skin, she just had a welt and a little bruise. All the years these kids have been coming over this is the first time it has happened. I guess this means they wont be walking him this summer.
oh forgot to mention there are 3 girls in that familiy and they range in age from 8-11 years old, so they are at that silly screaming girl age, constantly running and sqealing

[jomuir]

We had a rescue sheltie Sammie, who died after we had him for less than six months. Before he passed, he did the same thing when strangers were leaving. Once he lunged & went after DH's adult nephew at the door. Nephew didn't know Sammie was running up behind him, it really startled him. Luckily, he had on jeans so there was no contact. Nephew laughed it off, said 'hey your dog just bit my butt!' no harm no foul.

Sammie often tried to push folks out of the house, he really bonded with us & was protective. We just made sure to have a hold of him whenever anyone got up to leave the house, it didn't become a problem for us (however we didn't have him long enough for it to be a big problem sadly).

There are a lot of great suggestions already, if at all possible, I'd lay down the law with the kids that the dog MUST be crated or in a closed room when their friends are leaving. They can learn that, it may be hard at first, but if you persist, they'll come along if you are consistent. I hope you don't have to rehome or euthanize him. Good luck!

[dmeyer123]

Lexi goes crazy when I am getting ready to leave. I have to put her outside just to put on my shoes. She doesn't really bite, but she does use her mouth to try to stop me from leaving by going for my shoes. The best way to control it is using a leash. At least she doesn't attack strangers when they leave. I would love to put and end to this nutty behavior.

[celloyogi]

Originally Posted by JessicaR

Thanks for the suggestions I will try some of these... again! The only thing that really works is prevention. Which is something I need to enforce with the kids.

I have tried the opening and closing the door I think the problem with that is he is smart enough to know I am not really going anywhere. He now waits until i get half way down the sidewalk before he starts barking.

I have tried throwing treats, he either A eats them so fast that he still comes back barking or B he ignores the food and keeps going after them.

I have also tried to do things out of order so he doesnt associate certain triggers, didnt really matter to him, he now starts barking when I put my jacket on. He will stop when i tell him to though.

I dont think he is aggressive nor do I think he has SA he is fine once you get that inital leaving out of the way. His behaviour though is why at 9 y/o he is still crated. He would get so crazy that he would attck the other dogs if they was close to him.

I am still worried about the parents of the girl he bit. They asked my daughter yesterday if he had his rabies shot. I mean geesh!! I know what he did was wrong, but I dont think he ment to hurt her and he didnt break the skin, she just had a welt and a little bruise. All the years these kids have been coming over this is the first time it has happened. I guess this means they wont be walking him this summer.
oh forgot to mention there are 3 girls in that familiy and they range in age from 8-11 years old, so they are at that silly screaming girl age, constantly running and sqealing

Yes, you should tell you kids that your dog must be crated when people leave. However, IMO your kids are too young to be expected to comply 100% with this rule. Ideally they would be follow the rule all the time, but especially given your concerns (or husband's) regarding potential for lawsuits, I don't think you should be giving that responsibility entirely to your kids. If friends are over, make it your job to double-check that the dog is crated/separated. Work on training and behavior modification when friends are not over (when the dog is less likely to be so reactive), and have your kids help out under your supervision.

It's great for kids to learn, and they will eventually, but it should never, ever be at the expense (or potential expense) of a family pet - and if they forget to crate the dog and a real bite, as in broken skin/no bite inhibition/etc, happens, that family pet is going to be the one to suffer through no real fault of his own.

[JessicaR]

[QUOTE=celloyogi;260975]Yes, you should tell you kids that your dog must be crated when people leave. However, IMO your kids are too young to be expected to comply 100% with this rule. QUOTE]

I agree my daughter who is 9 is too young to remember all the time the rules, my oldest son however will be 18 in October, I dont think he is too young to follow the rules. My other son is almost 13 so I think he also is old enough to be able to remember the rules, but I know at that age friends and video games sometimes makes him forget what he is supposed to be doing

My husband is going to see if he can section off an area for the dogs to be in while the kids are out side playing. We may have to make an area in the front yard, but as long as the neighbors dont complain we should be good.