Sheep herding

[redhatdoglover]

Would love to hear from any sheltie owners that are training and competing in herding trials with their shelties. Dakota and I are attending classes. He seems to have "power" over the sheep without really trying but we are still working to overcome his "politeness" so that he will "chase" them. He mostly follows me in the training ring. I have been assured that he will eventually turn on more. What experiences do any of you in this area?

[mellie]

First of all, welcome to the forum and we would love to see a picture of Dakota, especially herding sheep. I have no experience with herding but would love to try it.

[CluneBrae]

Welcome!
I am also new to herding....so not much experience to talk about :).
How old is Dakota? My puppy Mystique is still a bit young to start. We went last weekend to see if she was interested in the sheep and she loved it! Now a couple months of me learning the ropes until she is old enough to start too. Looks like lots of fun.

[sheltieblessing]

Hi! I'm new to Sheltie Nation. I saw your message and thought I'd "chime" in. I've been herding with my male sheltie since he was 4 months old, He's now 3. He loves it and has the AKC HT, PT and HSA-sheep titles, (by the age of 18 months), and also has his HTAD-1 in sheep from the AHBA-American Herding Breed Asso. How old is your sheltie? My sheltie is very, as you say "polite" also. I tell people that he herds like the pig in the movie, "Babe". LOL! Shelties do not herd like other breeds. They like to stay at the side rather then behind and toward the heads of the sheep. I think it is their way of keeping the sheep together so they don't bolt. A very light and calm voice is needed as a sheltie will shut down with too much loud interference from the handler. As my instuctor says, "If it seems boring then you're doing it right!" LOL! I've been working on driving for the past 9 months with my boy, a very slow and painfully patience process. Shelties are gatherers so the don't "usally" take to driving too well. I worked him on ducks too for a few months which has helped his driving come along. Hope this helps!

[mellie]

Welcome !! When you talk of gathering as oppossed to herding what do you mean...that they like to just keep the "sheep" in a group rather than move them? I would really like to have a go at this but haven't tried to squeeze it in to the schedule yet. Would love to see pictures of your boy too.

[Jaynie]

Welcome to the forum! Many years ago, my Sheltie, Neechee was really gung-ho on herding. He was so tiny (12 pounds) that I hesitated to let him herd anything big (he really, really, really wanted to herd my uncle's beef herd) and it took me years to find someone who had a herd of pygmy sheep to try him on. He took to it wonderfully, and though he never got anything but an HT in herding and we didn't do any competition, he loved it. I had a border collie, too at the time, and they loved herding together. (The BC's breeder was the one with the pygmy flock.)

Neechee was originally an obedience-only dog - for many years, but seemed to get bored with that, so we tried agility. He got bored with agility, too, so we tried the herding. If I'd had more time with him in herding, he probably would have been a high-achiever in that. But after discovering herding, his obedience performance went through the roof! I learned a valuable lesson - a thinking Sheltie is a happy Sheltie!

[sheltieblessing]

Herding is a general term. The term is basicly the dogs interactment with sheep-livestock. Gathering is the dog circling around the sheep, ("come-bye" is clockwise, "away to me" is counter clockwise), bringing the sheep to you. You may have also heard the term "fetching". This is what shelties are bred to do. Driving is the dog taking the sheep away from you. This goes "against the grain" of most shelties-not natural for them. There is an invisable balance point or "bubble" in which the sheep respond to the dog. As soon as you see the sheep raise their heads to move that is past the bubble. Chasing sheep is not herding. Dog broke sheep are very important. Test sheep are best for beginner dogs as they are "sticky" and stay with the handler and do not bolt. Trial sheep are more apt to bolt if the dog is too pushy, Remember, a calm, quiet dog will get the job done and is a good experience for both dog & sheep. Shelties are not ones to "grip" or bite sheep which is a BIG no-no anyway. A seasoned dog will bark to get sheep moving if needed. Remember: IF IT"S BORING YOU'RE DOING IT RIGHT!

[mellie]

Originally Posted by sheltieblessing

Herding is a general term. The term is basicly the dogs interactment with sheep-livestock. Gathering is the dog circling around the sheep, ("come-bye" is clockwise, "away to me" is counter clockwise), bringing the sheep to you. You may have also heard the term "fetching". This is what shelties are bred to do. Driving is the dog taking the sheep away from you. This goes "against the grain" of most shelties-not natural for them. There is an invisable balance point or "bubble" in which the sheep respond to the dog. As soon as you see the sheep raise their heads to move that is past the bubble. Chasing sheep is not herding. Dog broke sheep are very important. Test sheep are best for beginner dogs as they are "sticky" and stay with the handler and do not bolt. Trial sheep are more apt to bolt if the dog is too pushy, Remember, a calm, quiet dog will get the job done and is a good experience for both dog & sheep. Shelties are not ones to "grip" or bite sheep which is a BIG no-no anyway. A seasoned dog will bark to get sheep moving if needed. Remember: IF IT"S BORING YOU'RE DOING IT RIGHT!

Cool, thanks. Sally sees sheep everyday on our walk and perks up... I don't take her over to the fence cause I don't want to upset the sheep. i don't know if she would be a calm , QUIET dog or not. We do have a pair of ducks that nest by our creek each spring and she would really like to herd them, but I try to keep her away from them due to nesting...poor Sally, she needs something to herd !! do you have any video of your dog herding?

[sheltieblessing]

You need at least 5-dog broke ducks to do herding, as less tent to scatter. Also best if the ducks are from their own "family" or group. Mixing groups makes it very difficult for the dog as ducks are, (believe it or not), MUCH, much harder to work then sheep, are more reactive, and tent not to want to stay together no matter how skillful the dog. Wild ducks will simply fly away so don't even try. I do not have any video of my boy herding but have many photos. Once I become a premium member I will add pics. I pay all my re-newal dues (or in this case new member dues) to every group-club I belong to in December so I can easliy keep track. Best wishes and happy herding!

My Shelties:
Simon: AKC: HT, PT, HSA-s,
AHBA: HTAD-1,
CPE: CL2-H,CL2-F

Carly: AKC: HT, OA, OAJ, NF, CGC,
CPE:CL4,
(Soon to have CPE Agility Championships: C-ATCH-1, ChSTD & ChWC)

[CluneBrae]

Originally Posted by sheltieblessing

Herding is a general term. The term is basicly the dogs interactment with sheep-livestock. Gathering is the dog circling around the sheep, ("come-bye" is clockwise, "away to me" is counter clockwise), bringing the sheep to you. You may have also heard the term "fetching". This is what shelties are bred to do. Driving is the dog taking the sheep away from you. This goes "against the grain" of most shelties-not natural for them. There is an invisable balance point or "bubble" in which the sheep respond to the dog. As soon as you see the sheep raise their heads to move that is past the bubble. Chasing sheep is not herding. Dog broke sheep are very important. Test sheep are best for beginner dogs as they are "sticky" and stay with the handler and do not bolt. Trial sheep are more apt to bolt if the dog is too pushy, Remember, a calm, quiet dog will get the job done and is a good experience for both dog & sheep. Shelties are not ones to "grip" or bite sheep which is a BIG no-no anyway. A seasoned dog will bark to get sheep moving if needed. Remember: IF IT"S BORING YOU'RE DOING IT RIGHT!

Oh my...I can't imagine the boring part yet. Fourth lesson and I still can't keep the directionality of "come by" and "away to me". Then there is where the sheep go, where I go, where the dog goes...yikes. Wonder if I will ever get it?