Not recognising signals or ignoring them?

[Chinchi]

Darla has recently turned a year old but she is still acting overly puppy-like with other dogs. She will charge at them, be right in their faces, trying to lick their mouths and is very pushy about getting them to play with her. She will act up whether on or off leash, but because other dogs do not appreciate this behaviour, I keep her leashed now as it will only end in a fight.

When she has behaved like this, I have closely watched how the other dog behaves. He will give her several signs to tell her to back-off, such as growling, looking away and ignoring her, and even baring his teeth. Now, I am not a dog, but even I can recognise these signals! However, Darla either doesn't or she chooses to ignore them and carries on pestering.

When I do remove her she screams and makes a huge fuss, choking herself on the end of her lead.

I cannot work out what is going through her head and what she is trying to achieve with these encounters. The dogs can be bigger than her or smaller, it makes no difference.

Anyone have any ideas why she is behaving like this? Has anyone owned a sheltie like this?

[bi-blacks]

We have a 5 year old female, Meadow who exhibits this same behavior. Unfortunately for us and her no amount of training has helped. We have another sheltie and a siberian husky whom she torments till they snarl, nip or bite her. She is not fazed by this at all. We have decided this is the way she is and after 5 years if she hasn't learned her lesson by now nothing is going to change her. I know she just wants to play but the others are not always ready to play. Thank goodness this doesn't go on all the time. Your girl is still young so maybe more training and her maturing will change her behavior.

[celloyogi]

Is there any dog she gets along with, even a little bit? It might be she just doesn't have enough experience dealing with other dogs, dogs who are older and have taught her the "rules" of dog etiquette. I'm not recommending you subject another dog to Darla's behavior if that dog can't stand her, but a dog who tolerates her a bit might be helpful. He/she might serve as a mentor of sorts to help Darla better interact with other dogs. Ask your local obedience club about private/semi-private lessons. They should be able to give you a wealth of information for your specific situation.

Keeping her away completely from other dogs isn't going to help anyone. She'll never learn how to play nicely. Supervised interaction with older dogs, in limited doses and not in huge groups, can help. SheltieChe posted a great article about socialization (link below). The upshot is that you can't throw a dog in the deep end; things have to be gradual and you have to take cues from your dog.

Most dogs are social creatures. There is always a reason for aggression/anxiety and it is up to you to figure out the reason(s) and help your dog to adjust or accommodate. I wouldn't suggest trying to train such behavior out of your dog; the behavior is a natural reaction. Look for ways to work around the behavior, or better yet, replace the behavior with more situation-appropriate ones (keeping in mind that situation-appropriate refers to behaviors dogs deem appropriate). A person who is aggressive towards another person may just feel worse if they are restrained or yelled at. It's more effective to figure out the reason behind the aggression and focus on that. Many behavior issues resolve themselves once the reason behind the behavior has been identified and dealt with.


Don't Socialize the Dog
http://www.clickertraining.com/node/3953?SSAID=389818

[Chinchi]

Thanks for all your comments.

Bi-Blacks - Yes I hope that she does calm a little with maturity, I know she is still young, but I won't hold my breath!

Celloyogi - Funny you ask if there is another dog that is friendly that can tolerate her. After posting we went on a walk and bumped into a neighbour of mine. She had her dog, a poodle I think, about Darla's size who is a year older than her. I got talking with the owner about Darla's behaviour and she seemed to think she would benefit from a walk with her dog to learn how to interact better. She said her dog used to be like Darla, but he calmed down with age and more walks with other dogs one to one. We exchanged numbers and we are meeting up later in the week. If nothing else, at least Darla will have a little doggie friend to play with, but I do hope she learns a few things!

[celloyogi]

Originally Posted by Chinchi

Thanks for all your comments.

Bi-Blacks - Yes I hope that she does calm a little with maturity, I know she is still young, but I won't hold my breath!

Celloyogi - Funny you ask if there is another dog that is friendly that can tolerate her. After posting we went on a walk and bumped into a neighbour of mine. She had her dog, a poodle I think, about Darla's size who is a year older than her. I got talking with the owner about Darla's behaviour and she seemed to think she would benefit from a walk with her dog to learn how to interact better. She said her dog used to be like Darla, but he calmed down with age and more walks with other dogs one to one. We exchanged numbers and we are meeting up later in the week. If nothing else, at least Darla will have a little doggie friend to play with, but I do hope she learns a few things!

A dog walk buddy is a great idea! I've actually been looking for one for Olive; her boyfriend, Charlie the Shar-Pei from down the street, may be up for it. His owners say that he moans when they pass our house and Olive isn't outside to say "hi." But seriously, a dog walk buddy would probably be great for Darla. Time with another dog, time for a walk, and exploring new places with a buddy to help ease the way. All great ideas. Just make sure not to push anything too quickly. If you go on a walk and Darla seems to stressed, don't worry about turning around and heading home even if your dog buddy continues on. Darla will get there, it will just take time.

[*Caro]

She is an adolescent - so not a lot is going through that head!

It's a great idea to let her interact with adult dogs that can show her how to behave.

I'd actually keep on leash at all times around other dogs for a while so you have more control over her. As soon as another dog shows signals she is annoying them drag her away, don't talk too much to her as she's likely to ignore you (adolescents have trouble focusing on more than one thing anyway). That way you are teaching her when a dog shows those signals its time to move away.

Do a search on the forum on adolescence - you see quite a lot of people go through similar things at the same stage.

[Chinchi]

Originally Posted by *Caro

She is an adolescent - so not a lot is going through that head!

Lol, you are right there!

Good idea with the leash, that will be a good way to get her away if I think the other dog has had enough.

She was very good yesterday when we went for a walk. Two other dogs approached her and I asked whether it was ok for Darla to say hi and have a play. The owners were delighted I asked permission (people seem to let their dogs run riot here more of the time), so i let her off leash and she played beautifully. She was a little in your face, but the German shepherd corrected her and she actually backed off. It was probably because there were two of them, so she couldn't be overly focused on just one of them, but hey, it's a start!

When she was done playing, and we were done chatting, she happily came away with me when I called to put her back on her leash. She seems to calm down a lot after she has had the opportunity to say hi. If that is denied then she will get very worked up.

[HopeShelties]

Why do you feel the need to let her go up to other dogs to interact? She is not going to miss out by not being able to visit every dog. She is conditioned at this point to be obnoxious, and doesn't get that her behavior is inappropriate.
If you feel you must let her visit, train it. No interactions with other unknown dogs until she understands how to visit with another dog.
People often think mine are 'shy'. They aren't shy, but there are expectations I have when it comes to other dogs. They do not bounce all over other dogs, drag me to them, bark at them, etc. They are expected to wait to be released to visit, and even then, it's just a polite sniff unless we really know the dog well, and then they may play (eg: Ember and her sibling Glory playing) but otherwise, no. It isn't polite dog behavior. If I don't release my dog, they are expected to stay calmly and quietly at my side, either standing or sitting. It is a nonevent.

[Chinchi]

Originally Posted by HopeShelties

Why do you feel the need to let her go up to other dogs to interact? She is not going to miss out by not being able to visit every dog. She is conditioned at this point to be obnoxious, and doesn't get that her behavior is inappropriate.

I don't think she needs to go say hi to every dog she meets, quite the opposite! That's why I keep her leashed, to prevent her from running off after every dog she sees.

What I do want is to improve her behaviour when other dogs run over to say hi.