We stopped her from barking outside.

[Toffee's Mom]

I completely agree with Dawn and Michelle and the rest. I feel these are cruel devices and will not work for the long run.
The price of broken trust is not worth it, and there are dogs who get so afraid of going outside because they don't associate the PAIN with a 'correction' but with being outside... they don't associate it to the barking.
I am sad you feel you need to use such a nasty device, it can get a dog to shut down... so sad

However, I sincerely hope it works out for your dog and that she remains as sound and loving and it doesn't leave a lasting effect.

[mbfrench]

Originally Posted by Sharon

I have to agree with you,Down right cruel in my book.

As I sit and type this,all 4 are outside playing,even Mia. If there was a moment they were quiet..say 4-5 minutes,I get up and look to see what they are up to. As quiet,is unheard of outside. They bark! It's what shelties do.

Jasper's passion is those dang squirrels that continually taunt him by leaping tree to tree. And Blake follows suit. Trapp looks on,every now and then will bark.

Mia barks,as she can smell the boys near her,and she wants attention...(as every queen should)

If I happen to be outside playing with them,often times they are quiet as well,with no barking,even playing frisbee. It's jut how it is. But I certainly would never put any kind of device on these dogs to shut them up,"just because they bark"

Inside...they are very quiet,unless someone drives into the yard. And I would have it no other way. Let them be themselves. I would never,ever put something like this on any of these dogs. It's cruel...if you don't want a non-barking dog,then get a Basenji..

I feel unnessasry barking is a learned thing. It can be stopped & hushed inside the home. But one must start early & desensitize the urge to bark,unless it is warrented & needed.
Reward the dog (s) to being quiet,don't try to stop the barking once it is out of control,cause then you have lost thier train of thought, you have lost control.
One will find,the dog will like being rewarded for being quiet & playing,instead of being corrected with some kind of device.

And I totally agree,this dog mentioned,will eventully regress,and associate "pain" with going out the door,and even over thresholds to go outside.

We sleep all day,both Brian & I,all 4 dogs are in all day.There is not one iota of uneeded barking all day. It's the way they have been taught since day one. When I say hush,all 3 know what the heck I am asking.
I do not count Mia in this,as Mia ONLY barks when she is in need of something.Being blind & deaf,it is her only way of communication with us.So we defineately take notice and tend to her needs.

I can hush both Trapp & Jasper with just me putting my finger to my lips,and saying "hush" firmly.They know when I say something,they listen. Blake is learning,and doing well. But I had a late start with him,coming to me at 5 months. But he is doing well.

[*Caro]

The poster actually had a thread recently discussing bark collars and none of those mentioned were e-collars. I do believe this thread was just informing those who are interested about the outcome. It's a shame that those who do use bark collars aren't allowed to discuss them on the forum with others who are interested without being attacked for it.

[Toffee's Mom]

Originally Posted by *Caro

The poster actually had a thread recently discussing bark collars and none of those mentioned were e-collars. I do believe this thread was just informing those who are interested about the outcome. It's a shame that those who do use bark collars aren't allowed to discuss them on the forum with others who are interested without being attacked for it.

Well, it's a public forum, and if you discuss aversive methods and tools it would also be a shame to not allow us to comment and warn about the dangers such devices can and will do to the wellbeing of your dog.

[*Caro]

Yes it is a public forum but that is no excuse for people to continually berating others. These continual attacks are designed to stop any one from having a discussion that opposes that point of view.

There are genuine and important issues around using bark collars that should be discussed - like how to introduce them, when to use, how long to use and how to get lasting results.

If you don't like it then stop posting on threads about bark collars and basically derailing any discussion. It's called trolling.

For those that are interested in discussing further - esp using the ultrasonic collars, PM me.

[bi-blacks]

I have to agree with Caro. What one person finds helpful another might find offensive but I don't think we need to chastise that person. Instead of criticism maybe some constructive alternatives would be better.

[Toffee's Mom]

Originally Posted by bi-blacks

I have to agree with Caro. What one person finds helpful another might find offensive but I don't think we need to chastise that person. Instead of criticism maybe some constructive alternatives would be better.

Many of us have given more than adequate alternatives!
Sometimes it's simply not what one wants to hear. I have and will always willingly give hours of free advice on here. One of many behaviour advice is do not get a shock collar, citronella collar, high frequency sound collar or an invisible fence, in the end they are all the same, regardless of the way they are being marketed and packaged.
Sorry if I can't fluffy that up, I just can't

[Sharon]

Originally Posted by Toffee's Mom

Many of us have given more than adequate alternatives!
Sometimes it's simply not what one wants to hear. I have and will always willingly give hours of free advice on here. One of many behaviour advice is do not get a shock collar, citronella collar, high frequency sound collar or an invisible fence, in the end they are all the same, regardless of the way they are being marketed and packaged.
Sorry if I can't fluffy that up, I just can't

You know if you post stuff on here you are going to get back feed.You can't sugar coat it so if you don't like the response then don't post.This is my take on this and JMO!!!

[corbinam]

I think we can all agree that these types of devices are controversial. Anyone who posts, either positively or negatively, about these products is likely to get a range of responses from outrage to agreement.

Because this is a place for open discussion, it is acceptable to respond with your opinion in a respectful manner. However, once you've voiced it (either positive or negative), then that should be plenty unless the original poster asks for further feedback. No need to belabor your point.

Thanks.

[Jaynie]

Personally, I would never use them. I've had problems with adverse methods before.

Way back in the 90's, when Neechee was a pup, my trainer insisted that I "force break" him to retrieve. Said he'd never be a reliable utility dog unless he knew there were adverse outcomes to not bringing the dumbbell back.

I pray for forgiveness for this error every day. It is something I should not ever even considered. But Neechee was my Novice A dog, and the first dog I ever had as an adult and I was ignorant.

The night we did the force breaking, I came home and cried. Neechee hollered when I pinched his ear, and just that one ear pinch had a terrible outcome.

It took him about a month to forgive me - and after that, he never played again. Nothing. Nada. And he was a dedicated player! He would run and jump, but would never retrieve or play with toys again. (Except in his old age, when someone would shut a door, he would pick up anything on the floor nearby and viciously attack and shake it. Truly weird.)

I'd be too afraid of the shock collars to try them. The only thing I've ever tried was a citronella-spraying collar for one of my border collie fosters. She had a bad habit of sneaking up on my BC Max and trying to murder him (in his opinion). It had a remote and when she'd start sneaking up on him (not very subtle - she'd adopt the "broken neck" BC stance) I'd let her have it. But that was a very unique case.