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Vixen snapped at me

Discussion in 'General Dog Chat' started by labgirl, Feb 19, 2015.

  1. labgirl

    labgirl Forums Sage

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    I have to get this off my chest because it scared me silly.

    Vixen is my brother's 16 week border collie pup. She has always been a headstrong difficult pup, very prone to using her teeth when you do something she doesn't like. But this morning things became much worse.

    My mum was feeding Vixen and Sparrow in the kitchen together (this isn't usual, normally Vixen eats alone). Vixen went to dive her head in Sparrow's bowl and my brother said 'no' and took her collar. She snapped at him and bit him.

    I came through and was doing a little clicker with her, just 'look at me' training. I had finished the session and said good girl and gave her a stroke. She just turned, bared her teeth and bit me hard - not quite enough to draw blood, but left marks. I was shocked to say the least. First thought was maybe she was hurting there, but my brother could touch her without any issue. When she was sat in his arms if I tried to touch her anywhere, she bared her teeth and snapped. Even if my hand was just near her.

    I am really worried now. Border collies, at least over here, are known for being sharp, snappy dogs, especially the working lines dogs. Without much effort I can reel off a list of five collies that I know personally to be people aggressive and liable to snap.

    Worse still, Vixen's dad is known to be people aggressive - largely fear based.

    She did not come from the best arrangement. Mum and dad got together by accident. No one realised mum was pregnant until the pups were born, I do wonder if they received a sufficient level of nutrition in the womb for mental and physical development.

    Vixen is also aggressive to strange dogs and prone to growling and barking at people. I am really concerned she is going to prove a danger to people.

    My thinking is not helped by Merlin and Cadbury, neither of whom have taken to her after seven weeks at home. Merlin really hates her.

    I am feeling very shaken at the moment. Quite frankly I don't want to be around Vixen and I am really worried about the next time I have to pup-sit her. I have never been scared of a dog like this before.

    I have spoken to my trainer and booked a 1-2-1 for tomorrow night, because my brother loves that little dog and wants to try and resolve this. I, on the other hand, would be happy to see her go back to the farm and put this whole sorry episode behind me.:(
     
  2. trini

    trini Forums Sage

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    Sophie, I am really sorry you are going through this with Vixen...I would find it scary too. Merlin and Cadbury seem to also be reading something in Vixen that is concerning to them too. I hope a qualified professional trainer can help.

    Trini
     
  3. Caro

    Caro Moderator

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    Wow, what a dilemma. We see the same issues in some working lines here - don't trust them around other dogs or strangers. Some of the die-hard agility people run BC like that - the dogs are so bad though that people have to clear a path so the handler can get the to the ring. I think it's cruel as the dog is clearly not enjoying the environment, even if they do enjoy the few minutes in the ring, the then spend 9-10 hours crated. But I think some people enjoy the challenge.

    On the one hand you do have the skills to train a dog like that. And being only 4 months old there is a strong chance she can be trained. But your brother is really going to have to commit to some serious effort, and if it's inherited it's a life-long commitment. Time for some serious NILIF it sounds like.
     
  4. Sumac3890

    Sumac3890 Forums Sage

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    I agree that it is time for NILIF, so sorry this happened and I would be scared too. Merlin and Sparrow are smart and know that Vixen does not fit in maybe? I feel so bad for your brother.
     
  5. labgirl

    labgirl Forums Sage

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    Thanks all, I hope the session with the behaviourist will help too. I have been reading stuff on the Internet and it seems she is a typical working lines collie and they are prone to being snappy and nippy. I already do NILIF with her, because she is a challenging pup, but I could probably do more. BCs from working lines tend to be 'sharp' as someone put it to me, add in the dubious genetics and well...

    I feel bad for my brother too, as he does think the world of her, but I do have to ask myself if she is the right dog for him?
     
  6. Jess041

    Jess041 Forums Enthusiast

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    Wow that is quite concerning, especially since she's only 16 weeks! I hope the trainer can help you out.. nobody wants to live with or be around a dog like that. Hopefully since she's so young, she can learn to be a nicer dog.
     
  7. labgirl

    labgirl Forums Sage

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    Thanks, it is tough at the moment.

    Had a long chat with mum and have been debating options. One might be to create a fenced area with a kennel in the garden for Vixen, where she can go when brother works. That would solve issues with her and my lads, plus she could be safely outdoors where she wants to be and I wouldn't have to handle her.

    I am saddened that I just can't seem to connect with her. Someone has said we need to start viewing her as a purely working dog and not a pet dog. That seems harsh, but I do understand what they mean. She is just not 'soft' like my three.
     
  8. SheepOfBlue

    SheepOfBlue Premium Member

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    16 weeks... do BCs have a fear period like Shelties?
     
  9. labgirl

    labgirl Forums Sage

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    Possibly Sheep, though I have not noticed any signs of it. I do think her reaction to dogs is fear based.
     
  10. tesslynn

    tesslynn Forums Enthusiast

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    I have heard from lots of ranchers that BC working dogs aren't good pet/family type dogs, and they prefer to have one handler. Oh and I love the name Cadbury just wanted to say that:winkgrin:
     

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