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Those Darn Weaves! Help!

Discussion in 'Agility' started by labgirl, Feb 9, 2016.

  1. labgirl

    labgirl Forums Sage

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    I am sick of weave poles:mad:

    All the trainers I go to encourage the channel weave method of teaching. I started Sparrow on this when she was a year old, and at first it seemed good, but we have reached a stage where we just can't progress.

    Sparrow has been training weaves (minus a couple of months when she was poorly) most weeks for a year, as well as at home in short sessions. Yet we can't get past the stage of having the weaves about a couple of inches open. She has the weave action and looks great and fast, but bring those poles in the last couple of inches and she just pops straight out. The last four poles are the worst, we have to pull them right out to about four inches sometimes or she just keeps missing them.

    I am started to feel so frustrated, not with Sparrow, but with the fact we seem trapped in this cycle of trying to put the poles in then having to bring them out again.

    Can anyone offer some suggestions? I am tempted to go back to just four poles in the garden and use the clicker to teach her to do them closed then add two more and two more, etc, until we reach twelve - though I suspect my trainers would have a fit if I did that! I just feel we have been doing channels for too long and she has become too used to having a slight gap to the weaves.:gaah
     
  2. ghggp

    ghggp Moderator

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  3. Calliesmom

    Calliesmom Moderator

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    I've never done the channel method- tried it with the brown dogs who wouldn't run down the center when they were open so I gave up right away with that....
     
  4. Silaria

    Silaria Forums Sage

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    I was actually going to mention 2x2s. Thanks for finding that link for it. It captures the basics of 2x2 very well.

    Sophie, 2x2 is the method that is the current preferred method of training weaves. In theory, because it should be done with shaping, the dog learns to weave because they figure out the correct behavior and are rewarded only when performing the correct behavior. It also teaches complete independence to complete the weaves.

    The use of a "clock" for closing up the weaves. 1 pair starts at 9:00 and 3:00 until the dog is going through the poles. Once it has the idea to go through the poles, you turn that one pair to a 8:00 and 2:00. This is where you really start to drill the entrance to the poles from many different angles and on your right and left hand. When you get to about 90% success on entries with 1 pole at 8 and 2, add a second pair at 8 and 2.

    Move to 1:00 and 7:00 and repeat. ONLY after reaching 90% success. Then move slowly at 12 and 6. ONLY when you get to 12 and 6 with 2 pair do you add the 3rd. At that point you should just be able to add the 3rd pair in straight line.

    It sounds like a lot but the dogs really seem to pick it up quickly. Because Sparrow has some weave knowledge she should really get through the first part quickly.
     
  5. Cara Sandler

    Cara Sandler Forums Enthusiast

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    Spirit learned weaves by using gates on the outside of them so that she was forced to do them correctly from the get go. That way their bodies learn what they need to do and they kind of go on auto pilot. Spirit has been doing 12 weaves independently, after having learned that way, since she was 9 months old and she has beautiful weaves.
     
  6. ClantyreSheltie

    ClantyreSheltie Forums Sage

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    That is exactly why I never trained channels.

    Yes, go back to basics with straight up poles. I started one dog completely over with 2x2 when what I was doing failed. The last two dogs were taught 12 poles within a month with the 2x2 method. One of them sometimes pops at 10, especially if there is a tunnel staring her in the face, the other is a weave machine. Both have great entrances.

    Maybe it's time for new instructors, they seem to be holding you back with their lack of knowledge.
     
  7. labgirl

    labgirl Forums Sage

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    Thanks guys for the input. The 2x2 method is very new here and a lot of the top trainers don't use it yet. The only reason I know about it is because I read this forum.

    So I am going to go back to basics and do some shaping work with Sparrow and the clicker.

    This morning I set up just 4 poles in the garden and I took her through them slowly the first time and then let her loose. She is driving through 4 closed poles completely independently, using the clicker to reward her. She is pretty solid in the left hand weaves, less solid on the right hand, but at least now I know she can do closed weaves.

    Here is my thinking (after a lot of mulling in bed last night!). When Sparrow does the channels she gets the first four poles perfect and then skips out somewhere after. Because of this she is getting little reward for her 'perfect' first few weaves, because I am always concentrating on the later, end weaves. Her level of reinforcement for good weaves is actually diminishing. So, I thought, let's go back to just 4 for a little while and reinforce her weave action using the clicker.

    Then I am going to add the next two, but do it like the 2x2 so they start more angled, and rapidly bring them into a straight line.

    Now, if I remember rightly, the next step is to set up two sets of 6 weave poles with a gap between, and you reinforce the first 6 before doing the second and then gradually close the gap until the dog does all 12? It was the method I saw on a video series about 2x2s I watched.

    So we are working on trial and error right now. The important thing is that Sparrow was driving forward and focusing ahead on the 4 poles and not requiring help from me. I'll keep you all posted, thank you.
     
  8. corbinam

    corbinam Moderator

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    Yay SF to the rescue! I was going to recommend exactly what everyone else has said. Work using the 2x2 method. If she can do the 4, you're spot on that I'd add the next 2 at an angle and quickly close them, if possible.
     
  9. Silaria

    Silaria Forums Sage

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    That's right. After you have her doing 6 straight, start another straight 6 and move them closer together to get 12.

    Great that she's doing 4! You should get the rest pretty quickly.
     
  10. labgirl

    labgirl Forums Sage

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    I hope so. I told myself "if she can do four she can do six, and if she can do six she can do eight, etc, etc."

    I think for Sparrow I just need to break it down into manageable chunks rather than try to go for twelve all at once.
     

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