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Gezzz... Why?

Discussion in 'Sheltie Training' started by ghggp, May 21, 2019.

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  1. ghggp

    ghggp Moderator

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    So, I have enrolled Liam in another CGC class. He did complete the class last time but did not take the test as he would not let anyone touch him. It is a really large class... 12-13 dogs. He did terrible again in the first class... was scared in the second class too. Brought him early and it made no difference this time.

    What makes it so difficult is when you have a highly sensitive dog like Liam and they allow a LARGE aggressive dog in the class, it is not a good mix! There is a Doberman in the class that is HUGE! No exaggeration either. If he walked up to me he would reach my chest. Granted I an only 5'2" but this has to be the largest male I have ever seen.

    On the positive side, there is another sheltie. He is the same age as Liam so at least feels comfortable around him. We stick together in class. I desperately need to socialize Liam more. I feel terrible when he gets frightened. I try to not show it... telling him a command to take his mind off something that may have frightened him.

    The Doberman is so large and aggressive ... he snarls, growls, and lunges at the other dogs. Sometimes it is so bad the owner moves into a corner and hold his snout shut. One of the trainers used the Company of Animals Pet Corrector Dog Training Aid. It releases a sound like an air blast the completely unhinges Liam.
    It is not bad enough that the dog is aggressive but the correct is also the issue.

    I have a call into the training facility to talk to them about it. I am all for the person trying to train their dog... however, at the expense of others in the class... not so much! Maybe I am just being overprotective. But, it so hard to keep Liam concentrating on me in class that is making my job 10x harder. He does wonderful heeling, stays, downs, and recalls when aggressive dogs are not part of the environment.
     
  2. Cindy

    Cindy Premium Member

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    I am so sorry to hear this. I do have a hard time understanding why they would allow an aggressive dog...I would hope they would recommend individual classes until he can progress to being around other dogs. Totally unfair to the other pups :(
     
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  3. Ann

    Ann Moderator

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    I've been in classes with dogs like this Doberman with my shy Shelties and in my experience, it does more harm than good to continue. I'm lucky to go to a training center with an understanding instructor who knows Shelties and has allowed me to withdraw from courses with dogs like this and take them another time. For a Sheltie who's nervous and sound-sensitive (mine is) this is a horrible situation that just reinforces their fear.

    I know you're in a CGC class. Would it be possible for you to transfer to something else, like Rally? Usually they need Obedience for Rally but perhaps they'd make an exception for Liam. I took my dogs to Rally classes to give them confidence and it was much better for them than Obedience, because they have the ring to themselves when they're working and the shy ones seem to do better in that kind of situation. Plus mine have really enjoyed it!
     
  4. ghggp

    ghggp Moderator

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    I was thinking the exact same thing Cindy which is why I am calling them to talk directly to the owner of the training facility.
    We had an exercise where the dogs had to do a sit stay or down stay as the trainer held our dog and we walked around the room. This is to begin the out of site training.
    The trainer tried to get the Doberman to sit. He would NOT! SHe did not even try. She is a small lady and I don't think she wanted to confront the dog while the owner was not close by. VERY FRUSTRATING...
     
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  5. ghggp

    ghggp Moderator

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    Thanks, Ann... I will ask. Never tried Rally before - but building confidence sure would help him...
     
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  6. ghggp

    ghggp Moderator

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    Well, just got off the phone with the trainer. Her comment is the lady is trying to work through her reactive dog issues. She explained she is walking a fine line between trying to help an aggressive dog and a fearful one. She said my concern over Liam might be traveling down the leash and making him more nervous.

    I explained that I want to set him up for success and that aggressive dog was not helping. She understood my concern and said I could transfer to the evening class where there are only 8 dogs. It is just an advanced obedience class without the CGC part. However, she said I could take the CGC class for free next time. I felt it was a good compromise. I told her I just can not be in a class with that aggressive of a dog.
     
  7. Sharon7

    Sharon7 Premium Member

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    Gloria,
    I am a recent convert to Nosework. You work individually with your dog, at least at our class, the dogs wait in the car until it's their turn. In the almost year that I've taken class, I've seen and heard about very shy and unconfident dogs completely blossoming. It's a bit different of an approach because you are not guiding or training as you might think of training. You are letting the dog use their natural instinct, their nose, to scope out really yummy rewards.

    Our instructor says over the years she's seen many timid dogs really come into their own overall after taking Nosework. Plus, it's fun! Just something to think about.

    And of course you did the right thing removing Liam from the class. That Dobie's problem does not need to exacerbate Liam's fear, that's ridiculous. Really too bad, Dobies can be such fabulous dogs.
     
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  8. Ann

    Ann Moderator

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    We did some Nosework as part of our last Rally class and the dogs LOVED it. Even my shy Flurry figured out how to find the boxes with the goodies in them. All the dogs and owners are in the training room but the working part is sectioned off so you and the dog are by yourself there, the same way we practice Rally courses. I would imagine it's terrific for nervous pups!
     
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  9. Sandy in CT

    Sandy in CT Premium Member

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    I am so sorry! Our 1st session of obedience there was a large pitbull in the class. Oh my goodness - talk reactive - the dog was given up to Animal Control; it was the Animal Control officer who adopted the dog for her daughter. Last summer, I was bit in the gut by our neighbors 'but he's such a sweet goofball' staffie - a dog I had babysat and walked since they got him so I was no stranger. The pitbull in obedience, you know she 'only needs socialization', literally just wanted to eat everyone. They had a wall for her to stand behind - you could hear her smelling people's scents. Creeped me out class 1 and 2, but class 3 we did recalls and the damn owner let the leash go! Thank heavens she ran from the daughter to the animal control officer, after the trainer refused to hold the leash because she went after the trainer. When she went at the AC officer, she actually latched on to her arm, not the treat offered, but did not break skin. Class #4, she was still in attendance but muzzled. I know I complained - I feel the 2 owners put us all in jeopardy dropping the leash. I firmly believe that dog will eventually harm someone; she is not in our class this time.

    I would complain - reactive or shy - that trainer needs to address both issues. Yes, your dog might pick up on your vibe, but holy cow, what happened to POSITIVE stuff to encourage overcoming issues? The correct with the alarm should NOT be allowed in class; I am surprised if only your dog reacted, I know I would have!

    Have you considered CBD oil only for a short time, only during class, only to get him into a comfort level at class?
     
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  10. ghggp

    ghggp Moderator

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    This Doberman should be used as a guard dog! It shows no aptitude to tolerate any other dog. I would be scared to own it as a liability! If the trainer did not want to put it in a sit or down stay... that says a lot. Oddly enough, another dog barked at it and really set him off... the trainer said the other dog was at fault... REALLY!

    Anyway, I have never tried Nosework. I will see if they offer it. Can't say I remember seeing it on their website. Anyway, since he is so the sight and sound reactive and NOT using his nose as he will NOT take a treat in class no matter what I make, it might not work for him. Just not sure. Overwhelmed at the moment.
     
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