Dismiss Notice
Hello Guest, Welcome to the new version of Sheltieforums.com. If you have any questions regarding the new software, please post in the following section: Forum Upgrade

Is Chance a Sable Merle?

Discussion in 'Sheltie Colors' started by Joy Metcalf, Jan 21, 2019.

Tags:
  1. Joy Metcalf

    Joy Metcalf Forums Novice

    9
    6
    20
    Dec 24, 2018
    Midcoast Maine
    I adopted a 4-year-old Sheltie, a breeding male who has thrown blue merle pups. My groomer looked at him and said, "he's a Sable." Then after grooming him, she said, "You know, maybe he's a merle. The shading sure looks like it." So here are some pics. He's very hard to photograph if he's paying attention to me. The only way I can get a decent photo is to either surprise him or take one when he's not looking. Please tell me what you think. https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

    ""
     
  2. Caro

    Caro Moderator

    6,857
    1,845
    285
    Jan 14, 2009
    Canberra, Australia
    Looks like a blue merle to me. No way anyone could say he was sable, he may have tri colour in him showing through.
     
  3. ghggp

    ghggp Moderator

    3,753
    3,680
    290
    Aug 28, 2011
    Grosse Pointe, Michigan
    I agree, no way is he a sable! If he was being used as a breeding dog what does it say on his AKC papers?
     
  4. Chris

    Chris Forums Celebrity

    8,993
    1,842
    285
    Feb 25, 2008
    Northern Virginia
    He's a blue merle, I'd say.
     
  5. Calliesmom

    Calliesmom Moderator

    10,974
    1,692
    335
    Mar 29, 2008
    near Mobile, AL
    definitely a blue merle (tricolor black, tan and white with merle gene making some of the black a gray color).

    this is a sable merle- he has very dark brown patches but there is no black anywhere.....
    the dog next to him is a biblack so you can see how the dark brown is lighter than the black on the black dog.
     
  6. Sharon7

    Sharon7 Premium Member

    2,556
    2,298
    290
    Oct 31, 2009
    Southern California
    I have no idea why he would be thought of as a sable! He is definitely a blue merle. And a very cute one at that. Just look at some of the photos here on SN or google "sable sheltie" to see the difference!
     
  7. Joy Metcalf

    Joy Metcalf Forums Novice

    9
    6
    20
    Dec 24, 2018
    Midcoast Maine
    As I look at him in the sunlight, the dark on his head looks black to me, and his body looks like a combination of very dark brown and black, with definite light brown spots. His papers--there's a story to that. He was originally owned by a teenaged girl, who spent two years training him very well. However, she gave him away to a friend of mine when she went to college, because he had a farm and lot of space for Chance to run. The papers he got were puppy papers, and he was supposed to have been neutered before he could be registered. My friend used him to breed to his hunting and shepherding dogs, and then decided I needed a dog, since I'd lost mine in a house fire two years ago. I've been bugging him about the papers, but he can't find them; they're somewhere in a pile of papers that need to be filed. One day I'll get them and find out what they say his color is, but for the moment, I'm out of luck.

    Chance is definitely dark. His head looks black to me, except where the merle shows on one side and a bit of tan as well. The guard hairs on his back for the most part look black or very dark brown, but underneath is lighter, with gray running in bands and spots across his body. Sharon7, your dogs are beautiful! Cranberry, though, looks much lighter than Chance. I'm going to post more pictures I took in the sun today, against the snow.

    I guess one thing we're all agreed on is that he's a merle of some kind.
     
  8. Joy Metcalf

    Joy Metcalf Forums Novice

    9
    6
    20
    Dec 24, 2018
    Midcoast Maine
    KarenCurtis likes this.
  9. Caro

    Caro Moderator

    6,857
    1,845
    285
    Jan 14, 2009
    Canberra, Australia
    Definitely blue merle, they don't have to have a lot of grey to be a merle dog. But there's definitely merling around the face and some ticks in the coat. Merle is a modifier - so he basically has a tri-colour coat and the merling adds grey to it. One parent will be tri-coloured. Even with a small amount of merling they are still called blue merles (or bi-blue), makes a big difference for breeding because they shouldn't be mated with another dog with merle genes as they can produce double merles (which are bad).

    My male was sable merle, the merling was hardly noticeable and was mostly gone as he got older. Here he is as a pup with some faded areas on the back that is probably due to the merling and one blue strip over the left shoulder. As you can see when he got older you wouldn't know he was anything but sable. He had more blues than any other colour in his pedigree (too many merle to merle breedings which can't be registered nowadays). But the fact he had merle in him was only relevant if was ever bred from.
    Deska-merle.jpg
    Deska-merling-2.jpg
     
  10. Joy Metcalf

    Joy Metcalf Forums Novice

    9
    6
    20
    Dec 24, 2018
    Midcoast Maine
    Okay, now I see my confusion about the term "sable". I used to raise ADGA registered Sable dairy goats. Their colors can range from light gray to reddish to dark brown or black, but most are very dark, so I though sable Shelties would be dark.

    I had also seen photos of blue merle Shelties and they were all very light. Put the two together and I thought this very dark dog must be a sable and that the merling meant he was a sable merle.

    Thank you all for your knowledge, helping me figure out my boy's color!
     

Share This Page