SheltieChe
Forums Sage
I was wondering if it is more difficult to show/ win smaller dog, i.e how many champions are 13" ones? as oppose to 15" ones.
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Size Disadvantage?
- Thread starter SheltieChe
- Start date
tofu pup
Moderator
(I moved this post to its own thread, because it is a good question!)
oK Here is my own personal take on the issue...Doesnt necessarily mean anything but generally what ive observed...the majority of the dogs that are 13" generally dont show because while they are in size and hopefully portioned, they generally just stand out from the rest of the dogs in the class looking like well.....a midget! And thats in the bitch classes. I cant even imagine showing a 13" dog. It would look completely out of place, and judges with something that looks out of place wont put it up, or atleast all breed judges wont, they tend to be more main stream.
Now I have a bitch that is 13 1/2. Ive showed her a few times, and yes shes very cute outstanding front/rear/neck..etc her fault is her head is a bit well midgety
Shes won a few points but honestly to keep throwing money out when shes in classes with 15+" bitches its just ridiculous! And her size obviously didnt carry though to her offspring since they are 14 1/2, 15(something) and 15 3/4"...
Now I have a bitch that is 13 1/2. Ive showed her a few times, and yes shes very cute outstanding front/rear/neck..etc her fault is her head is a bit well midgety
Shes won a few points but honestly to keep throwing money out when shes in classes with 15+" bitches its just ridiculous! And her size obviously didnt carry though to her offspring since they are 14 1/2, 15(something) and 15 3/4"...I agree! Persoanlly I think yes, it is far more difficult with a small dog. A smaller dog, even one which is 'ideal sized' will never 'take the eye' as much as a larger dog. I've noticed this in interbreed competitions too. Larger breeds which are flashy showers see to stand a much greater chance of winning than small 'unobtrusive' ones.
It's not just in dogs either. When I showed rabbits I had a stunning male who was spot on for size but he frequently lost out to rabbits which were right on the limit, including his son!
They just looked that much bolder.
I also think a dog with flashy markings will stand a much better chance of doing well than a plain one. I'm thinking boxers as well as shelties here.
I will be interested to see what other people think. I have recently read a similar discussion in one of my old breed publications. I will see if I can look it out...
It's not just in dogs either. When I showed rabbits I had a stunning male who was spot on for size but he frequently lost out to rabbits which were right on the limit, including his son!
They just looked that much bolder.I also think a dog with flashy markings will stand a much better chance of doing well than a plain one. I'm thinking boxers as well as shelties here.
I will be interested to see what other people think. I have recently read a similar discussion in one of my old breed publications. I will see if I can look it out...
ClantyreSheltie
Forums Sage
I think it's harder, but can be done. Marques sire Jigger (Ch. Foxglove Ashburton Bottoms Up ROM) is 14 1/2 inches, and is about the cutest thing you will ever see. Very well proportioned, just "small" for a male, though not according to the standard. Marques g-dam on the other side is 13 inches on her tippy toes and finished just shy of her 11th birthday.
I wouldn't know anything about little. I have five shelties, one is 16+, one is 16, one is 15 3/4, one is 14 1/2, and I think the puppy is going to be about 14 (which is why I still have her, nobody wants a small dog who might have to jump 16".)
What is interesting though is what you see in the Collie ring. Collie bitches should be 22-24 inches at the shoulder (recommended). My bitch is right on 22, and she looked like a MOOSE next to the 19-20 inch Collie bitches being shown. Shelties are getting bigger, Collies are getting smaller.
I wouldn't know anything about little. I have five shelties, one is 16+, one is 16, one is 15 3/4, one is 14 1/2, and I think the puppy is going to be about 14 (which is why I still have her, nobody wants a small dog who might have to jump 16".)
What is interesting though is what you see in the Collie ring. Collie bitches should be 22-24 inches at the shoulder (recommended). My bitch is right on 22, and she looked like a MOOSE next to the 19-20 inch Collie bitches being shown. Shelties are getting bigger, Collies are getting smaller.
Silaria
Forums Sage
I don't show but I find this very interesting considering the reason I have Edan is because of judges commenting "too bad his isn't a bitch" (translation: too small for a male) when he was showing as a puppy.
Honestly, it makes me wonder if a 13 inch, well proportioned, and (hypothetically) as near to standard as possible Sheltie will always be overlooked for a larger one, why start the Sheltie standard at 13 inches? Why not start it at the more desirable 14 inches (for bitches) and 15 inches (for dogs)?
I honestly don't expect an answer; it just makes me scratch my head.
Honestly, it makes me wonder if a 13 inch, well proportioned, and (hypothetically) as near to standard as possible Sheltie will always be overlooked for a larger one, why start the Sheltie standard at 13 inches? Why not start it at the more desirable 14 inches (for bitches) and 15 inches (for dogs)?
I honestly don't expect an answer; it just makes me scratch my head.
BarbV
Forums Celebrity
I don't know much (anything??? ) about showing, but my guess is if they put too small a range, there would not be enough pups to compete. They come in such a range of sizes - as we all know.
I mean, how many dogs would fall into a perfect 15-16"? So they put some flexibility into it.
So that being said, bigger is more likely to make an impression, and the judges only have a few seconds with each dog. So the dog that stands out is the dog that will win.
) about showing, but my guess is if they put too small a range, there would not be enough pups to compete. They come in such a range of sizes - as we all know.I mean, how many dogs would fall into a perfect 15-16"? So they put some flexibility into it.
So that being said, bigger is more likely to make an impression, and the judges only have a few seconds with each dog. So the dog that stands out is the dog that will win.
sable
Forums Enthusiast
I don't show of course, but it seems like most of the small ones like my Lil' Lady is up for sale for companions by the breeders. I have seen them advertised as pocket puppies already, FOR SALE.
The breeders all like that 14-15 inches in size it seems. I quess that is what they mean, they don't have enough if they are too little to go into show, for sale.
Tell that one to Lil' Lady, she doesn't have enough.
The breeders all like that 14-15 inches in size it seems. I quess that is what they mean, they don't have enough if they are too little to go into show, for sale.
Tell that one to Lil' Lady, she doesn't have enough.
What really gets me is that shelties are supposed to be a smaller dog, and they just keep getting bigger and bigger. If I wanted a larger dog I would have gotten a collie or border collie. I have even seen breeders place their dogs in pet homes because they only grew to be 13.5 inches! I personally would like to see shelties move back to 13-14 inch range instead of pushing 16" for shows
From the Bowling site:
The allowed size range has changed during the development of the breed, generally moving upward from a one-time maximum of 12"
From the Bowling site:
The allowed size range has changed during the development of the breed, generally moving upward from a one-time maximum of 12"
ClantyreSheltie
Forums Sage
And this quote right here will tell you that Shelties weren't bred for "herding", despite popular ideas. My mom has a 13 inch dog who does not have enough leg to get around the sheep on a B course. A BC sized dog is needed for that. Can you imagine an even smaller dog?