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Temperament / Barking Questions

Discussion in 'Considering a Sheltie?' started by nyy42, Jun 26, 2016.

  1. nyy42

    nyy42 Forums Novice

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    Hi everyone!

    I am thinking of adding a second dog and am considering a Shetland Sheepdog. I had little interest in the breed until I realized how many attributes they fit the bill on - intelligence, size, and biddability, to name a few. There are a couple of things, however, than concern me - mostly, the barking, timidness, and sound sensitivity.

    Perhaps the best way to explain why I am concerned is to explain who I am and what I do. I work full time and live in a condo (a VERY large condo, but it is a condo building nonetheless). Before anyone asks, exercise is not a problem.. in addition to regular leash walks (and my involvement in dog sports which I'll talk about later), I have both hiking trails and beaches within a 15 minute drive from my home and I use them a lot. However, being in a building makes barking a concern, as there would at least be a couple of days a week where the dog is left for 4+ hours by itself or with my other dog. We don't live in a particularly noisy area, but there ARE things that a dog might find bark-worthy.. the railway behind our building going by, for example. I understand that barking is an innate characteristic of this breed based on their history. But can proper training, exercise, mental stimulation and impulse control make it so that barking isn't an excessive problem?

    Additionally, I am the type of person who takes my dog everywhere. On errands, to the horse farm where I ride, to local demos/events, and of course to class several days a week (I am a volunteer instructor at my local dog club). I also do quite a bit of Agility and Rally (my current dog has a MACH and is working on her RAE) and these are things I would like my next dog to do as well. So I NEED a solid temperament.. and based on the things I've heard so far in my search, I'm not sold that this exists or is a guarantee in this breed.

    I am VERY familiar with socialization and desensitization to sounds.. but since this was an issue for my first dog (a rescue), neither shyness towards people nor sound sensitivity are something I want to have to deal with as a source of fear for the life of my next dog. I don't need a dog who loves everyone.. I don't even mind a dog who gets grumbly about strangers entering their home.. but I'd like a dog who is temperamentally sound in public.

    Frankly, there are many things I like about Border Collies and am considering a BC, but the portability and *slightly* lower exercise requirements made me give Shelties a second look. I'm not even sure what question I'm asking -- I know I need to do more research -- but I wanted to hear from Sheltie owners whether a Sheltie might work for my situation. I know no trait is set in stone with any dog regardless of breed or upbringing.. but bottom line, I prefer less bark and need a dog up for lots of different adventures.

    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. Bailey's Mom

    Bailey's Mom Forums Enthusiast

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    I don't think you get a guarantee in any breed honestly.

    I know a dog blogger that has a Sheltie in a condo and she doesn't seem to have a problem with it. However, if you have experience with dogs, you know within breed temperaments can differ.

    I'm not sure what your question was around horses, but both of mine were at a daycare on a horse farm and loved it. They did well around horses, but like all things training and reinforcement were required. I really miss that daycare.

    My experience is Shelties bark. Bailey got more sensitive to sounds as he got older. Katy has been quieter since Bailey passed. She's less reactive to sounds but I don't know how long that will last when she's done grieving. Treats and distractions help with training, but I don't live in a Condo so when mine bark in the house when I'm gone it isn't as much of a big deal.

    As for leaving your dogs more than 4 hours, I've never really done much of that. When I worked full time as I mentioned the dogs were in daycare. Now when we are gone we have a neighbor that will provide a midday break and/or dinner for us if we have to be out of the house. I'm just not comfortable leaving Katy for more than 4 hours without any break.
     
  3. tesslynn

    tesslynn Forums Enthusiast

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    Border Collies NEED to work, if they can't they become quite frustrated dogs. Unless you have an environment that has that capability, please pass on that breed. So many get a bad rap when really they just aren't allowed to do what they were bred to do.
    I do NOT like barky/yapping dogs. I have had 4 shelties, let me say I do NOT let them bark. I am on them NOT to bark, since the day they arrive. So I would say that if they are barky it is because they are/were allowed to bark without limits. Mine know that barky isn't allowed. They can vocalize, they are thanked and then that is it. I have lived in apts and condos with 2 of mine, they didn't bark. But I will say when mine are left they are left with the radio on, to soothe them and to block out a lot of the commotion that goes on that they might react to. If my dogs are barking, they are doing so for good reason and it means something is wrong in their world.

    Adventuring- all mine have been keen to that. They prefer to go with, then be left behind. Mine do very well in the car. They know if I pack a suitcase it is a road trip and they know they have to behave. But I reinforced this since puppyhood. Exposure and training makes for a better dog in any breed. Shelties aim to please and if they get what you want they are quick to comply. They all seem to go through a shy phase, and during that, you have to be very mindful of how you deal with it. 2 of mine haven't been great with other people, they would retreat until they observed the person and figured out about them. My other 2 haven't met anyone they don't think is wonderful. My tri-colored ones have been more reserved. I don't know if the temperament is due to genes, color or what. My sables were the outgoing ones, and seemed more intelligent (maybe just better at getting what they wanted). Just my experience. I have had girls, and they are notorious flirts with males, both human and canine. They are divas, they demand attention, but are highly loyal. Mine let me know when they are bored or upset with something you have done. I never had a male sheltie but I am told they are more laid back and accommodating. My breeder says the girls are sassy, independent, & very clever-I think that is a great description. They say you pick a breed based on personality, and the descriptors define me:happy:. Probably why I love them to pieces.

    Coming to this forum, we are devout devoted fans of this breed. We know there are negatives but most of us would say the greatness outweighs any of the challenges. I wouldn't have any other type, they have proven to be the best companions, the funniest entertainers, and the most loyal sensitive dogs I know.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2016
  4. Silaria

    Silaria Forums Sage

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    Hello and thank you for putting so much thought into your next dog. This level of consideration will go a long way to both of you being happy.

    Regarding your condo, there are members of this forum who live with their Sheltie in an apartment so hopefully they will chime in with some advice on that front.

    Temperament is something that will vary from dog to dog however it is something you can have some control over. That control comes form working with a reputable breeder and being 100% honest with them about what you are looking for. I have three Shelties from two different breeders and all three of them have outstanding temperaments. A good breeder will know their dogs and be able to match you with the best dog they have that fits your needs.

    My dogs also have a bit of the Sheltie shyness but they have the confidence that it doesn't rule their life. You just give them time to move through a situation as their pace and don't make a big deal of it. A well socialized puppy will normally become a confident adult.

    My husband and I also work and are out of the house during the day. Your Sheltie, especially when older, should be fine for four hours while you are at work.
     
  5. GordonDaSheltie

    GordonDaSheltie Forums Regular

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    I live in a townhouse which isn't massive but has 3br and a 10 x8 mt courtyard (approx) Gordon hardly ever wants to go outisde only if we are wth him or for toilet. Last summer he would spend a bit more time by himself in the courtyard but not so much in winter. We haven't had him long though. He hardly ever barks at home and if he does there is a good reason either play, someone's arrived, the male cat is being mean to the female cat etc the house barking is easy for us to control with him. Cats have also helped discipline him! Haha now when we are at the dog club his barking is relentless and I'm struggling to control it. But at home he is an angel! He loves his mental stimulation more than pure exercise although given the opportunity he could run around at the park all day with other dogs as he does at doggy daycare. He is most definitely NOT a timid dog in any way. Even the breeder has said that this is the most outgoing and confident litter she's ever had. So I know that's not the normal Sheltie temperament but it's perfect for as we are super active and prefer an outgoing pup. I'm biased now that I have my first Sheltie and I think that they are the bestest breed even the "shy" ones are perfect
     
  6. mimiretz

    mimiretz Forums Enthusiast

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    We lived in a 1180 sq ft apartment until last Monday with Oberon-the-Sheltie and Casanova-the-cat. Oberon barked when he thought it was appropriate, i.e., when someone walked their dog outside our window, when a car pulled into the parking lot (our bedroom faced the lot and we were on the ground floor), when someone walked up the stairs that were outside our apartment, when someone came too close to our door, or for some other usually unknown reason. However, we never got any complaints from anyone as everyone seemed to understand that he was a dog and that dogs bark. However, because I work at home, he was never left at home for very long and therefore he never barked incessently; it was always in response to something and was fairly short-lived. He would bark, one of us would quietly tell him it was okay, and he would stop (unless it was someone at the door, which is something we're still working on).
     
  7. Cara Sandler

    Cara Sandler Forums Enthusiast

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    I wouldn't say that a solid temperament is guaranteed in ANY breed - but my Spirit Joy - and all the dogs in her breeder's line - have rock solid temperaments.

    That being said, she does bark. To be fair to her, the barking doesn't bother me and it isn't excessive, and I haven't trained her not to. I live in an apartment complex and have asked my neighbors if she has bothered them barking when I'm not home, and they all say that they do not hear her at all when I am not there. I do leave a white machine going which seems to block out the little noises, so she is much quieter when that is on.
     
  8. Caro

    Caro Moderator

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    My Shelties come with me everywhere and I've never had a problem with them being too shy or timid to be out and about. My female was attacked quite badly when she was younger, so became fearful for a while but I think any breed could go through the same thing. My dogs did flyball and agility, we travelled quite a lot, go bushwalking, stay on farms, visit the city and they currently work in a hospital as therapy dogs. Never had an issue with a dog being too timid to do any of these activities.

    With the barking, keep in mind that Shelties were bred to bark when they worked, but not to bark at everything. You can't have a working dog that barks for no reason, otherwise it would be useless for the farmer, who wouldn't know if there was a problem. So this does mean they can be trained when not to bark.
    Deska, my current male, is the only Sheltie I've owned that's been a barker. I think he developed this in conjunction with his arthritis worsening. I live in a body corporate, so the dogs aren't allowed to bark outside. Deska stays indoors, he barks outside where there's more stimulation (I back onto an off lead area), only times he'll bark inside if a truck goes past or someone rings the doorbell. My female can stay outside quietly with no problems, she'll only bark if she's being egged on by Deska. For many years they were left 9hrs a day inside and I never had an issue with the barking. My previous shelties stayed outside all day while I was at work and never barked. I will say though, that Shelties are more likely to bark in multiples - they do like egging each other on.

    I think many of the concerns you raised with Shelties you could equally see in border collies. Being herding breeds they should show some caution, it's inherent in their being good at their jobs, and like most sheepdogs, many problem behaviours are the result of not enough activity or stimulation. But they are also very smart and learn quickly to adapt to your lifestyle. And your Sheltie will also learn a lot from your other dog and likely form it's behaviour based on that.

    Keep in mind on Sheltie Forums that a large proportion of people only post when they have a problem, so it's not representative of the breed as a whole.
     
  9. nyy42

    nyy42 Forums Novice

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    I know this is a Sheltie forum but I have to ask: what do you mean by "work"? Is hiking partner, agility/obedience partner, and teaching things that use the dog's brain not enough to be considered work? I understand that BCs are dogs that need to feel that they have a purpose, even if that purpose is bonafide tennis ball catcher. FWIW, and without getting in to the whole discussion on lines which I know can be a controversial conversation, I would not be looking at any farm-bred dogs (or even agility-bred dogs for that matter) and would probably look at something that came from both conformation and performance lines. Feel free to tell me to take this elsewhere if it is too off-topic :)

    Thank you everyone for your thoughts so far. It sounds promising so far that a Sheltie and I might mesh well. I have a lot to consider and am not rushing in to anything. Very soonest I'd look to bring home anything would be a few months from now and that would be on the very short end of things. A lot of this is foreign to me not only because of my inexperience with Shelties, but because of my inexperience with puppies. I brought my current dog home at a year old.. and while we have accomplished a lot behaviorally and otherwise, raising a puppy and understanding the balance firsthand between nature and nurture right from the start is something new for me. That's not to say I don't understand the importance of socialization and early life experiences because I know that they are paramount -- but my first dog only taught me what happens when you DON'T do those things, not how relatively easy it may be when a dog DOES have those experiences. If that makes sense.
     
  10. tesslynn

    tesslynn Forums Enthusiast

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    This sharp-eyed, quick-thinking, fanatical workaholic has been bred for endless miles of sprinting and stop-and-go action.

    If it isn't possible for him to work livestock, you must substitute several LONG (45 minute) walks per day, plus off-leash romps in a safe area, fetching balls or frisbee, and weekly or twice-a-week advanced obedience classes or agility classes.

    Without physical and mental stimulation, Border Collies become hyperactive and will drive you up the wall with obsessive and destructive behaviors as they seek creative outlets for their physical and mental energy.

    that sums it up nicely...taken from a BC site....I had a friend that did BC rescue, and she use to say that you shouldn't be able to purchase a BC unless you had a working farm, or wide open spaces with animals, etc. They aren't a good city, couch potato breed. People in the city, don't get the commitment it takes to keep this breed happy. Most city dwellers are away too much from home, don't have the time to devote to the care of the dog, and they get dumped for not being an apt loving pet. She use to get so mad that people hadn't done the research on what this breed was for. She use to go to schools and pet stores to try and educate people on matching a dog to your lifestyle.
     

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