Dogs fighting

N

NHAnimator

Forums Regular
Jake goes to work with me where there are two golden doodles that he plays with all day long. One is older and about 3-4 times is size. The other is about his age and twice his size.

The older is certainly the alpha male where he is normally subdued and only has to show his teeth or growl to put everyone in their place.

But Jake and the other one will get into a match once about every month. Today, when chasing a ball, they got into it. It went on for a long 5 seconds before I could get my hands on them. In the end, no one is ever hurt (no blood is drawn or anything like that) and they make up right away.

So it seems like they have just never established who is #2.

Your thoughts and experiences?

Thanks,
NHAnimator
 
We spend a lot of time with good friends of ours and their two dogs who live 6 houses down. We have our two sheltie girls and their dogs are border collie/blue heeler and golden retriever/australian shepard mixes. The Jesse, the retriever mix is a female, and also the alpha, followed by Sadie, James (the other mix) and Ginny.

Jesse is possessive of toys, especially balls and Sadie, who also loves, balls, challenges her from time to time. Its the same thing, there's 5 seconds of snapping and growling between them, no blood is drawn and then they're friends again.

We try to control Jesse's possession issues, but in general I think these squabbles are a normal thing. Jesse and Sadie both receive reprimands and then all goes back to normal.
 
Goldies are notoriously bad for being possessive over balls (esp if they belong to other people).

I doubt it has anything to do heirarchy. At my local oval we have anywhere between 10-20 dogs playing fetch with each other (with a few balls in play). They dont have a 'heirarchy' but have learnt to give each other turns and share resources. Thats because as owners we have stepped in and made sure they learnt to share. Now when a new dog joins, if it tries to hog resources the regular dogs (usually the bigger ones) will snap at it to bring it in line - doesnt take long for the dog to learn.

I would say the fights are over a 'resource'. If you see them getting snippy over the ball take it off them. Or if one is hogging it call out the other ones name when you throw the ball so it can have its go - you would be surprised how well dogs understand 'sharing'. You or the other dog owners should be the controllers of the ball anyway. It is hard for a Goldie to learn to share but even harder if the humans dont intervene to show them how.
 
*Caro said:
Goldies are notoriously bad for being possessive over balls (esp if they belong to other people).

I doubt it has anything to do heirarchy. At my local oval we have anywhere between 10-20 dogs playing fetch with each other (with a few balls in play). They dont have a 'heirarchy' but have learnt to give each other turns and share resources. Thats because as owners we have stepped in and made sure they learnt to share. Now when a new dog joins, if it tries to hog resources the regular dogs (usually the bigger ones) will snap at it to bring it in line - doesnt take long for the dog to learn.

I would say the fights are over a 'resource'. If you see them getting snippy over the ball take it off them. Or if one is hogging it call out the other ones name when you throw the ball so it can have its go - you would be surprised how well dogs understand 'sharing'. You or the other dog owners should be the controllers of the ball anyway. It is hard for a Goldie to learn to share but even harder if the humans dont intervene to show them how.
Click to expand...

Geez, I didn't even think of the golden link when I was writing about Jesse doing the same thing! Interesting point, I didn't know that!
 
Jake is himself very much into tennis balls. He is just as aggressive in this situation as the younger golden doodle. And there are times when they get into these little spats over other things (food, etc).

My thoughts were that every pack of dogs eventually set forth a pecking order (alpha, beta, etc). Usually, this starts with the human in the room and works its way down. Absent the human, the alpha dog becomes #1.
 
Are you sure they are actually fighting?

When dogs play, they pin each other down, grab at ears and necks, sometimes give a shake or two, and there is lots of grunting and what "appears" to be growling. I often see one of my dogs or the other rolled onto his back and the other dog on top, with jaws snapping...

When you first see it, you think its a fight, and then suddenly, they'll break apart and start chasing each other, and then it starts all over again.

It looks like this....

http://www.sheltieforums.com/album.php?albumid=110&pictureid=1271

If you are not used to it, it can really throw you. Sometimes, I do intervene, however, when the play really becomes rough.

At puppy school, I remember that when a playing pup got out of control, they would give him a time out, and do a "settle" before allowing him back into play again.

Just food for thought.
 
BarbV said:
Are you sure they are actually fighting?

When dogs play, they pin each other down, grab at ears and necks, sometimes give a shake or two, and there is lots of grunting and what "appears" to be growling. I often see one of my dogs or the other rolled onto his back and the other dog on top, with jaws snapping...

When you first see it, you think its a fight, and then suddenly, they'll break apart and start chasing each other, and then it starts all over again.

It looks like this....

http://www.sheltieforums.com/album.php?albumid=110&pictureid=1271

If you are not used to it, it can really throw you. Sometimes, I do intervene, however, when the play really becomes rough.

At puppy school, I remember that when a playing pup got out of control, they would give him a time out, and do a "settle" before allowing him back into play again.

Just food for thought.
Click to expand...

With Sadie and Jesse, its definitely not playing, but it's not really what I'd call out and out fighting either.

Jesse is definitely possessive of toys and I believe asserting her dominance over Sadie, who occasionally challenges her. There's a lot of noise and snapping at each other when they get into it, it's not pleasant but neither has ever bitten, (especially Sadie) but it ends as quickly as it begins and they go back to being buds.

It reminds me of wolves eating a dead carcas. The alpha gets first dibs and if one of the subordinates gets too close the alpha goes after that subordinate. The alpha snap will snap and bite at the subordinate, but doesn't actually do any damage. It looks and sounds really nasty, but no one is usually hurt.

It would be very different if Sadie was as dominant as Jesse is, then I wouldn't leave them alone together.
 
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