Kidney Diets

Fasb's Owner · Aug 11, 2015

As I have mentioned elsewhere, Fasb's kidneys are starting to fail. Not too serious yet, but blood work shows a problem. Creatine and BUN absorption numbers are too high, meaning the kidneys aren't processing properly.

Vet is recommending a prescription food for kidney failure. He's pushing Hill's Science Diet pretty strongly (he sells a lot of Hill's product). When I ask him about other brands' prescription diets, or say that we're researching cooking for him, he dismisses the question and goes back to suggesting Hills.

We're open to trying it, but we're not sure Fasb will like it. To get him to eat dry food now, we have to mix in moist food or something like a little tuna, so I'm skeptical he'll eat a bland, kidney-friendly kibble. I kinda doubt we will and I'm not planning to force it on him. I'd prefer his last months/years be spent enjoying his meals

I'm talking to the vet about diet again today. I'm assuming he'll recommend being strict, which will mean cutting out the treats and people food Fasb is used to.

We're wondering if it might not just be better to feed Fasb food he likes, spoil him a little more, and let nature run it's course. He'll be 14 soon, so his happy, quality time is probably limited no matter what we do. He's not in bad shape overall - still playful, content, affectionate - but he's obviously wearing out on multiple levels. I want him to be content as possible during this last phase of his life.

Will a kidney diet make that much difference? If it's only likely to have a mild impact, I question whether it's worth it.

Thoughts? Thanks.

Silaria · Aug 11, 2015

Edan and CJ's breeder had their dam on a home cooked kidney diet that actually reversed her numbers (made them better) three or four different times before age, she was 16, and kidney disease caught up to her. This same diet was used by, and recommended by, a few of our local Sheltie breeders. I also watched Cheryl (k9kreationz) keep Miko reasonably healthy and comfortable for a year or two with a cooked kidney diet.

Those are just two examples but, to answer your question about is it worth it, I believe it is.

In neither case did the dogs suffer; they were actually worse when the diet wasn't right. The kidney diet will, in my opinion, make the progression of the disease as easy and comfortable for the dog as possible.

If you are interested, I can reach out to Edan and CJ's breeder for information on the kidney diet she used. I think Cheryl engaged a canine dietary specialist to help her plan meals for Miko to ensure they were balanced. I'm sure she can point you to where she got her information from.

Caro · Aug 11, 2015

I think it might be anthropomorphising to worry that he might care so much about not getting gourmet food. Remember dogs don't actually have that many taste buds, and they are scavengers. They don't really get quality of life from what they eat - unlike some human foodies. So switching to a kidney diet over more luxury foods is really going to hurt you more than it hurts him. And you can probably still feed treats and cooked things - you'll just have to be more selective.

I ponder over this because Deska is on long term NSAIDS - he's already been on them for 5+yrs. One day I'll may need to worry about kidney issues too. He's a big time food obsessive scavenger but I'd switch him over to a kidney diet in a heart beat if it meant he could stay on the NSAIDs for longer. That's where I see his quality of life lay - in being pain free. The difficult part would be if he couldn't be on the NSAIDs anymore.

Fasb's Owner · Aug 11, 2015

Yeah, I was extremely relieved when the vet didn't suggest changing/discontinuing Fasb's NSAID. I was more concerned about that than the kidneys, since discontinuing the NSAID would destroy his quality of life much faster than the kidney issues will. I think the vet realizes that Fasb needs Metacam, or at least, that we were contemplating simply saying no to any changes he proposed (like going on a steroid, instead).

Most likely scenario is that we try the prescription food. We're still gathering information, but neither one of us (me or my wife) is really sold on it. if he doesn't adjust to it and eat it, we're not going to force it on him, For what it's worth, even the vet is doubting he'll eat it (lol, Fasb's a foodie. He's a seriously picky dog/very spoiled).

kskc · Aug 13, 2015

I feel for what you are going through right now. I have dealt with kidney issues myself... one of my shelties was diagnosed with renal dysplasia at a young age. She was on a kidney diet for 7 years. I think the home cooked kidney diets are the way to go. I fed a mixture of home cooked and kidney diet kibble. As far as commercial kidney diets, be careful about the fat content. These foods are often loaded with fat to make them more palatable. My dog ended up with pancreatitis from the Science Diet canned food which had a high pork content. (After that experience, I never used canned food again.) For kibble, I used the Royal Canin Veterinary brand. I am not thrilled about any kibble and I am not a big fan of RC in general, but the ingredients seemed better than the other kidney diet brands available at the time. My vet wrote a presciption so I could order it online.

Here is a link for the RC...
http://www.royalcanin.com/products/products/veterinary-products/all-veterinary-products

I also found information on this website helpful...
http://vetprof.com/clientinfo/KidneyDiseaseInDogs/

Fluids are important for dogs with kidney issues, so getting as much fluid as you can into Fasb will be beneficial.

If you start researching kidney issues in dogs too much, it will make your head spin! I never found any clear cut answers when I was searching. It is good to educate yourself on the topic, though.

Fasb's Owner · Aug 13, 2015

We're thinking of going the home-cooked route once we learn enough to get a handle on what we're doing. To start with, we're looking at Royal Canine as a good compromise between being kidney healthy and something he might eat. We'll see what the vet says. Communication is breaking down with our current vet so we're going to a different dr. later this week.

Fluids are my main concern right now. Fasb's drinking but not as much. Seems to drink reasonably frequently but sips instead of drinking for awhile. Doesn't show the typical signs of fluid/kidney problems and his urine is normal color, for what that's worth (mostly clear, slightly pale). If he was getting dehydrated, I'd expect it to be more yellow. He's also not going to the bathroom any more (or less) frequently than usual.

We are doing things to get some water in him. Feeding him ice cubes, giving him some treats that we soaked with water, adding a little water to his dry food, etc.

kskc · Aug 14, 2015

Since you are unsure about your current vet, have you thought about taking Fasb to see an internal medicine specialist? It, of course, is more expensive.... but Fasb would been seen by someone who is experienced in a specific field. Not that a regular vet isn't "experienced," but regular vets have so many different health issues to keep up with and often not the medical equipment that specialized vets have. Hope that makes sense. Anyway, looking back, I wish I had taken my dog to a specialist because in the end she ended up with a really bad case of pancreatitis and there was a mass on her adrenal gland... something a specialist probably would have caught that our regular vet didn't.

If Fasb isn't drinking much, it sounds like he isn't too thirsty, which is actually a good sign. Dogs with kidney disease will often drink an excessive amount of water. Don't worry too much about it not being yellow. It is the specific gravity of the urine that is more of a concern... how well the kidneys are concentrating the urine. Keep tabs on the specific gravity of Fasb's urine when it is checked. It can fluctuate, so a high or low here or there isn't too much of a concern... it is when it is consistently high or low that usually indicates something isn't right. (low in the case of kidneys) Here is something else you can read that may be helpful... it mentions the BUN and creatinine parts of the bloodwork panel which are important to monitor for kidneys...

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+2114&aid=350

Please keep in mind that any advice I give comes from my own personal experience of having a dog with kidney disease. What worked for my dog may not be what is best for yours. It is important to discuss this and any other advice you get or read online with your vet. Discuss Fasb's diet too since protein levels are a concern for dogs with kidney disease and you want to make sure you get the right amount of protein (not too little or too much) in Fasb's diet... and be careful of the fat content which can lead to pancreatitis.

I have been in your shoes and I know how confusing it is.... wanting to do the right thing, but not being sure what the "right thing" is. It sounds like overall, Fasb is feeling well which is good. Keep posting about Fasb as you find out more.

Fasb's Owner · Aug 17, 2015

We didn't take Fasb to a specialist, per se, but we did take him to the largest vet practice in the area - more resources, including specialists. Same diagnosis (so far).

We did start Fasb on Royal Canine, btw.