Obedience club blues.

GordonDaSheltie

GordonDaSheltie

Forums Regular
I've been taking Gordon to an obedience club as its offers more and is cheaper than for-profit training school; $100 per 5 or 6 weeks vs $65 for two human members a year and we can go to any of their classes as many times we like.

However, I prefer the training style of the Delta certified school we were going to; small groups, loads of positive reinforcement, clicker training, loose lead walking instead of heeling plus they teach fun tricks etc. However they don't do proper agility or flyball and i want to keep that door open in case we would like to do trials later on. Hence joining the club.

We have been to one first timers class (not much training on that day) one puppy agility class and he did his first "proper" obedience class on sunday in the P1 group.

My problem is this. He barks A LOT. pretty much as soon as he's out of the car and sees other dogs until its time to go home. Hes running around on his leash in circles around me while he barks at all the other dogs. This makes it hard for him to focus on me during the class. I even have very high value treats like roast chicken, sausage and cheese and still its a struggle for him to listen to me.

When he's eventually working its not to bad but as soon as he's distracted he's barking again. Not only is it embarrassing for me i'm also worried about the stress it may cause him. It doesn't seem like nervous or anxious/reactive/aggressive barking but more like attention seeking from other dogs which becomes more and more frustrated as time goes on and sometime a bit of a growly bark.

After class this sunday two of the volunteer trainers came up to me and told me that i have to be firmer with him. One of them adding that he's barking because he wants to work and that he's a good dog but he needs to direct his energy to me. i don't know what that means as i don't want to yell at him and im worried that being firm will make him hate training or give him anxiety. I'm also not sure i know how to be firm with him.

I also had another student come up to me after that class and suggest that i teach him to speak so that i can teach him to be quiet at home. This unsolicited advice is great and well intended, however he doesn't bark like this at home and i don't know how to trigger it at home. Its pretty much only when he is at training and watching other dogs or when another dog walks past the dog park and he wants them to play with him.

A German Shepard had an altercation with another smaller dog on sunday and the noises and yelps sent me into an emotional state and of course the noise also made Gordon bark his head off. I almost cried at training i felt so useless and anxious of all the other dogs i'm still recovering from his attack and i'm worried that that energy is flowing down the leash. It was my first time at training on my own. My partner came with me to agility and he did bark quite a bit but i didn't feel so panicked because Sam wast here.

Please help i'm feeling really beat up about this and i don't know what to do. I don't want him to bark but i don't want to feel bad about possibly upsetting him or being told off by the club. I also don't want to stop going to the club because i get too overwhelmed.
 
My first question was how often have you and Gordon gone to this new training club? Over the years I've been teaching and training at my club I've learned it's not unusual for a dog to be overly excited the first week or two in a new place and around new dogs. If it's only the first time he's been here, he may settle as he gets to know facility.

Another option is to bring a crate and a stuffed Kong or something else he can't resist to occupy him. Crate him while he's not working with the stuffed kong. In addition, reward him for being quiet, verbally and with treats.

As for being firm with him, there is definitely a difference between being firm and being 'mean' to the point he won't like training. Being firm can simply be a stronger tone of voice; not yelling, just stronger, like you mean business. It's hard to describe in text - I guess the difference between Here. and Here!. (Keeping in mind HERE! could be equal to yelling.)

I hope there is something helpful in this post.
 
yes this is his first week at this club but he did behave the same at puppy preschool and then at the school. At puppy preschool we had to make a wall so that he wouldnt see the other puppies , it kind of helped but the wall (i.e. a big cushion) wasn't big enough and once he learnt that it was a divergence it had no effect at all. He does eventually settle a little after a few weeks but he is still a barker if that makes sense.

At the other school because we sat down for most of the training and demonstrations it was easy to give him a kong and treats, toys etc. He barked for the whole hour of the first class and each class it got a bit better as long as i had the kong stuffed. But at this club we stand and walk around in a circle practicing heeling or sits etc so its not convent to give him a kong. I tried filling him up with treats and getting him to sit or drop while they explain new things but i can't get his attention off the other dogs. Its like he knows I'm trying to distract him and he's not buying it.

When we walk in a circle as a group he generally shuts up. He probably thinks he's being walked over to the dog in front of him not noticing that distance never changes!

He was a lot better at agility than obedience, maybe because less dogs and its darker (at night) He is crate and pen trained we don't leave him free range at home when we aren't there. So i could try that but its such a hassle to collapse the crate etc. So would you crate him between exercises in an agility class or just at the beginning while we set up ? if i were to crate him between exercises and runs he would be crated every 5 minutes as there is only two other dogs in puppy agility so we all have a go every few minutes.

I told the trainers that he should settle down in a few weeks but they laughed it off and said "in a few months maybe."
I know they are kind of joking but i felt that there was a bit of pressure to 'control' my dog and him only recently recovered from a very serious dog attack. I'm scared that being firm will make him not like other dogs or training. I do find it easier to be firm at home than at training . Possibly because i'm already anxious about him being next to other dogs and i just want him to have a super positive experience.
 
There'll always be "free advice" at dogs clubs, don't worry too much. One of the reasons for going to a dog club to train is for the distractions - if it was nice and quiet like at home there'd be no point. You want a dog that can focus on distractions. And as Silaria said, it's common for over-excitement in the first weeks, even the first term. And we know Shelties bark, that's just what they do when they get over-excited, and he's still just a pup. The club won't tell you off for a barking dog, he's a dog, he barks. You'll just get heaps of free advice.

Telling someone to 'be firm' is unhelpful without assistance. What exactly do they mean, and how will that help if he is not focusing anyway? Teaching him to bark on cue won't help - if he could listen to do 'tricks' he would listen to stop barking. Were the trainers aware of what he has been through? It's important to let your trainer know he's only just recovered from a very serious attack. I wonder if he isn't just excited but a little over-whelmed. The only level of firmness I would suggest is the under-utilised method of 'walking away'. Taking him out of the situation that makes him silly or stressed until he calms down.

Go to the grounds early and just walk around, let him sniff around. A visit outside training hours would probably help. Take your time doing things, when you get out of the car just have little walks around the car park and perimeter of the training area, don't walk straight into the thick of things. If he starts getting over-excited try getting down closer to his level (if it's safe) or putting your hand on his back, let him know you're there. The hand on the back works for my Tully. And remember if he starts getting worse then turn and walk away. Take him to a distance and wait for him to calm down, then try approaching again. Keep doing it until he works it out.

In class, if he is going crazy step out of the training circle. Have they suggested working to the side a little? We often do that for dogs lacking confidence. Heck if he's still too crazy just sit on the sidelines with him and watch a whole class, or part of the class and join in later once he's settled down. It won't matter. Tully spent a whole term watching on the side lines after her attack - by the time she joined she'd actually learnt everything by just watching.
 
"In class, if he is going crazy step out of the training circle. Have they suggested working to the side a little? We often do that for dogs lacking confidence. Heck if he's still too crazy just sit on the sidelines with him and watch a whole class, or part of the class and join in later once he's settled down. It won't matter"

I so agree with Caro - this is an easy and really effective way without a lot of stress for both of you :yes:
 
Ok, my $.02 cents. His first time at the club... :hey look at me, hey look at me, hey MEMEMEMEMEME!!!! Hiya HIYA, hi... lets meet, lets meet. Okay, that's what I think he's saying. He's excited! So many dogs! Oh yeah, then there's you... You are in the way!

If you were in my obedience club beginner class, you would be far enough away from the "action" for the first couple classes and work on attention. Your mom would have to work hard to be more exciting than all the new dogs. PS - you would come with an empty stomach and get your meal a few pieces at a time for being quiet and looking at Mom.
 
You might find more expensive private lessons a better fit for your dogs socialization skills, until he calms down with other dogs present... this is very much a new dog/new student situation. Every 8 weeks we always get that one frustrated barking dog who did not get the memo. ;)
 
GordonDaSheltie said:
yes this is his first week at this club but he did behave the same at puppy preschool and then at the school. At puppy preschool we had to make a wall so that he wouldnt see the other puppies , it kind of helped but the wall (i.e. a big cushion) wasn't big enough and once he learnt that it was a divergence it had no effect at all. He does eventually settle a little after a few weeks but he is still a barker if that makes sense.

At the other school because we sat down for most of the training and demonstrations it was easy to give him a kong and treats, toys etc. He barked for the whole hour of the first class and each class it got a bit better as long as i had the kong stuffed. But at this club we stand and walk around in a circle practicing heeling or sits etc so its not convent to give him a kong. I tried filling him up with treats and getting him to sit or drop while they explain new things but i can't get his attention off the other dogs. Its like he knows I'm trying to distract him and he's not buying it.

When we walk in a circle as a group he generally shuts up. He probably thinks he's being walked over to the dog in front of him not noticing that distance never changes!

He was a lot better at agility than obedience, maybe because less dogs and its darker (at night) He is crate and pen trained we don't leave him free range at home when we aren't there. So i could try that but its such a hassle to collapse the crate etc. So would you crate him between exercises in an agility class or just at the beginning while we set up ? if i were to crate him between exercises and runs he would be crated every 5 minutes as there is only two other dogs in puppy agility so we all have a go every few minutes.

I told the trainers that he should settle down in a few weeks but they laughed it off and said "in a few months maybe."
I know they are kind of joking but i felt that there was a bit of pressure to 'control' my dog and him only recently recovered from a very serious dog attack. I'm scared that being firm will make him not like other dogs or training. I do find it easier to be firm at home than at training . Possibly because i'm already anxious about him being next to other dogs and i just want him to have a super positive experience.
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At Spirit's agility school, the dogs are required to be in crates in between their runs. It gives the dogs a little down time and since we all work off leash, (and there are often several classes going on at once) it keeps everyone safe in case a dog does get overly excited and rush another dog.

As for being firm and worrying that he won't like you anymore - well, I'm kind of in the same boat as you. One of my trainers has told me this over and over. And it's been incredibly difficult for me. I know she's right - Spirit goes to camp all day with this trainer, she is firm with Spirit and doesn't let her get away with nonsense - and Spirit ADORES her. I think it's a really difficult balance for us non-trainers to strike though. Paws crossed we will both get better at this :fl
 
Is he your first sheltie? Some of them are obsessive barkers. I have three, one rarely barks at all, one barks when excited only and the third, bless he heart, barks constantly. When I come home, when I sit down, when I stand up, when we go outside, when we come inside, when the others play ball, when she plays ball, when she is awake, when she is asleep...ok that last one not so much. But the point is she is a dog who can't really be trained to stop barking. We practice acting calm, but barking is who she is.

The puppy OTOH, is not that way. Oh he can get himself in a tizzy occasionally but he does have the ability to control himself, and we are working on that a lot right now. One of the few things that sets him off is when you don't throw the ball right away. So we have been working, clicker in hand, on stopping that behavior. So he dropped the ball and we will not even touch it until he had stopped barking. This meant turning out back on him and ignoring him. Something most shelties hate. He picked that up in a few sessions. Now we are clicking when he stays quiet for more than 10 seconds and next we week we will add the command "quiet".

My point is it sounds like Gordon is excited barking, and that is something you can teach him to control to some degree. Does he bark like a nut anywhere else? Maybe near a dog park or someplace you can have some distraction but not as many as the dog club? Maybe visit the club outside of class time and work on him that way?
 
@Liza0714 the more i study him the more i think its a combination of excitement and insecurity. I actually hadn't thought about training him to speak away from the house. He likes to bark at the dog park when he sees other dogs walk past the park. It's all beginning to feel impossible and a little overwhelming.

This morning i took him for a walk around the block and we went past the place where he was attacked for the first time. He showed obvious signs of insecurity and stopped a few meters away, i had to pick him up to take him to the empty dog park. ( attack happened nearby on the foot path but not inside the park. When a dog walked past he looked a bit startled and came running towards me but after the dog had moved on ( we are still in the enclosed park with the other dog outside) he settled and played happily on his own.We even practiced running through the tunnel. Another dog came past and he walked up to the fence but didn' approach to sniff him and just barked and whimpered at the dog from a couple of meters away. I told him "enough" and he settled a tiny bit but i couldn't tell if he was excited to see another dog or insecure. Gah! so much to figure out.
 
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