Performance breeding

helps · Sep 22, 2011

I hope future breedings will forever remove image of "shy and nervous sheltie " because they are NOT...

I have to say that sadly in CR it's very common to meet shy and/or nervous shelties. Actually a lot of people are totally charmed by my dog, because he's this happy crazy friendly a bit of stalker kind of sheltie :lol:

Because I have a lot of friends w/ shelties over here, I can compare them between each other&really many of them totally cringe when you want to pat them a little. AND they know me. To total strangers they won't even come close. Also one breeder of collies told me how many of shelties don't let even refugees to touch them at shows.... THO, I have to say that what I've seen at shows totally disgusted me - no surprise some of these shelties are totally scared when in the ring... I saw owners/breeders to hit sheltie's butts to make them carry their tail down. My friend took her (one of the million lol) happy sheltie to the show&she carried her tail up, too. People around told her she needs to yell at the dog and hit her before she goes to the ring :eek2:

I couldn't believe it. Anyway, my point is over here it's for a reason shelties are called shy and nervous. There's like maybe 1 happy sheltie: 10 shy nervous ones.

Actually I think you're right Lunatic face - might be because I live in neighbourhood (czech republic lol), but I think we don't have any line of working shelties over here. Yep, you can choose sheltie that was used for dog sports, but even my dog's mom that was doing agility was from breeder who did only shows w/ his dogs.

and for me it was totally clear, that I do want a dog from a breed like that. I didn't want a breed, where the breeder does agility. it seems to me like the breeder does have a higher expectance to you in sports, if he does by himself, too.

I think it depends a lot on the breeder. In general, it's not like anyone who does agility and breeds shelties expects you to win WC, LOL. Actually, quite a lot of breeders make bigger pressure on you to take dog to the shows over here.... which I don't enjoy, so it'd be a problem for me. My breeder did agility w/ her dogs, but she didn't force me into anything. She just mentioned that I should take this pup to agility class, because he's got "it". And it turned out she couldn't be more right and he's brilliant at his 17 months. SO I'm actually happy for her recommendation, because we have a lot of fun and met many great people :wink2:

and I don't feel pressure at all.

HopeShelties · Sep 22, 2011

There are still a lot of people breeding spooky shelties here in the US. We're not at a point yet where the breed is out of the woods yet on bad temperaments.

SheltieChe · Sep 23, 2011

I just realized that Mr Leo will make great therapy dog.. we keep meeting people on our walks and no matter whether it is child or senior Leo would inevitably come up for petting. He does not run up like a lab would but waits until person shows clear interest and does seems to enjoy socializing.
It is amazing to me because little monkey is really rocketing pocketing on the agility or herding course then suddenly turns into this lovey dovey fuzzball everyone wants to hug and pet...
Would it be correct to state that breeders who breed for performance/ versatility contribute more to the future of the breed than breeders of conformation only lines?

Sharon · Sep 24, 2011

Performance Breeders

I just picked up one of my old Clean Run magazines from 2010 from March and there is a great article in there on performance breeders.

corbinam · Sep 24, 2011

Sharon said:
I just picked up one of my old Clean Run magazines from 2010 from March and there is a great article in there on performance breeders.

I read that, too! Is that the one where Plail was mentioned? Or was that a more recent article?

Sharon · Sep 24, 2011

Performance Breeders

corbinam said:
I read that, too! Is that the one where Plail was mentioned? Or was that a more recent article?

Yes, Plail and Harding, and Moreaux.It answered alot of my questions also.

seashel · Sep 24, 2011

Ha!! I have finally got round to reading this interesting thread (Epic sleeps!!!)

This is one of my particular 'things' so sorry if I go on a bit.

I wish over here more breeders would focus on shelties as an all round breed. We have a handfull of breeders who concentrate on breeding for performance (mainly agility) but the majority breed for confirmation, although dogs they have bred do sometimes compete in performance events. A tiny minority acatually do a performance (agility usually) sport with shelties that also compete in confimration, but it is very rare.

At our main breed show which stages obedience alongside confirmation, it is pretty easy to pick out the obedience competitors as they are frequently either very tall or very short with pricked ears. Nothing wrong with that but I feel it is such a shame that so few 'correct shelties' participate. The inference appears to be that if you want to do performance then it doesn't matter what the dog looks like. This is not just in shelties BTW but across the breeds, especially the gundogs where a very obvious divide exists between show and working lines. Even border collies are going down this route.

I feel strongly ANY show dog should be physically able to go out and do the job it was bred to do and not be hindered by exaggerated features. Conversely, it is lovely to see a dog which is a good example of its breed competing in performance events.

In the UK, we have a Working Section of the breed club which was set up to show just this - a perfect combination of beauty and brains. So sad that it seems now to be a case of either/or.

Shelties are all lovely whatever form/colour they take of course, :biggrin2:

but what a shame some breeders pigeon hole puppies into 'show prospect' or 'agility/obedience/pet prospect'. I would like to see far more breeders here taking brains/physical capability into account rather than simply whether a dog is good enough to trot round the limited confines of a show ring.

Shelties here do have a public reputation for being nervous or shy. Countless times people have been surprised with my two standing still to be patted. I think this stems from a few decades earlier when nervous/snappy tempraments were a big issue and people remember shelties friends and relatives had in that era. It has greatly improved but something else I think breeders shouldn't be complacent about as it only takes one dog passing on suspect tempraments and being widely used for things to take a backward step. I really hope this never happens as a good temprament is everything.

corbinam · Sep 24, 2011

seashel said:
Shelties are all lovely whatever form/colour they take of course, but what a shame some breeders pigeon hole puppies into 'show prospect' or 'agility/obedience/pet prospect'. I would like to see far more breeders here taking brains/physical capability into account rather than simply whether a dog is good enough to trot round the limited confines of a show ring.

Julia, you made a lot of good points. I think in the US (just based off of what you said) that there are more people looking for a more versatile dog, but I also think that many breeders fall into that "it's either conformation or it's performance/pet". Although shelties are a smart, typically versatile breed, I don't like the fact that any dog that is not conformationally correct is often considered a potential performance dog.

I'd like to see more breeders who know that certain types of dogs will excel at performance, or are more adapted for performance, and not just because they can't be show dogs. For example, I've seen dogs with horrible structure billed as "performance/pet" because an ignorant breeder thinks that's how it works.

helps · Sep 25, 2011

The inference appears to be that if you want to do performance then it doesn't matter what the dog looks like.

Yes. And other way around - if you want to do shows, it doesn't matter what character dog has as long as it has beautiful shiny coat, nice shape etc. Just few days ago there was a discussion on another dog forum, where people talked about breeders and if they even care that some breeds have a horrible health&behavioral issues etc and that all thanks to breeding for "beauty only".
I wish more breeders would aim for both - beauty, great character and working abilities... Just like you said, people in my country are SO thrilled about my sheltie, because he's got it all. Sadly it's rather rare. Of course, you also have a point that it's not only shelties. BCs are good example - if you get border collie from working line, it's usually crazy dog who wants to work whole day. If you get one for shows, they're usually calmer, more "massive" etc.