Will clicker training help?

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nbrard

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I need to step up our training with Mikos and Brie and I am wondering if clicker training may be the answer. We have had Brie for 6 months and not done obedience classes with her but she was a show dog so her walking on a leash is perfect and she completely ignores people and pets on our walks, she has mastered sit but she does need work on her recall etc. Mikos did 2 sets of PetSmart obedience classes and he does have his Canine Good Neighbour (Canadian equivalent of the CGC) so he knows the basics but seems to have reached the 18 month stage and decided that listening is for the birds. His recall has never been strong because he prefers to saunter over to us rather than run, and he is easily distracted. So I guess my questions are:
1) Do you think they would benefit from clicker training?
2) When I use treats for training they often become obsessed with the food in my hand rather than the task. It makes training difficult, how do I fix this?
3) I have to train them separately otherwise they push in at each other to get the treats. Is this OK?
4) Brie is really barking when someone enters or leaves the house (front door is the trigger), would clicker training help this?
I have looked back at previous posts and bookmarked some recommended websites, as well as written down some suggestions. Any advice on my particular situation would be appreciated.
 
1) Do you think they would benefit from clicker training?

Well, you don't HAVE to use a clicker, you can just use a consistent verbal marker, but I personally forget what I usually use or my tone changes, so I use a clicker which produces the same sound all the time, and I think is a more precise marker (timing is very important when clicker training.. or any training for that matter).

2) When I use treats for training they often become obsessed with the food in my hand rather than the task. It makes training difficult, how do I fix this?

I have the SAME problem with Juliet. When she sees food her thinking mind shuts down. I have found that shaping helps, rather than luring. This is where the clicker comes in very handy. I put the treats away (behind my back, on a nearby table, anyway away from me), and when she does little steps towards the end behaviour, I click and treat along the way. She seems to focus more on figuring out what I want her to do than on the food.

I also make it a point to train "leave it" and recall with food lying around. I start easy first of course. I start with Leave It where the dog ignores the food in my hand or floor in front of her in a sit or down position. Then I progress to having my dog run PAST their almighty food bowl to me. Then I release the dog to its dinner! This improves recall and sort of teaches the dog to ignore food, finish the task and the reward will come anyway.

You can do variances of this - have someone hold some treats, enticing your dog, but not feeding it. Then you call your dog away from this person (start nearby first), making noises to try and get your dog over. The dog has to ignore this person with the treat and go to you (who may or may not have treats). When the dog gets to you, reward reward reward! It gets easier for the dog to leave the enticing friend with each repetition.

3) I have to train them separately otherwise they push in at each other to get the treats. Is this OK?

Yes, do train separately. But also do train together especially for cues that both dogs know! I train new stuff to each dog separately. I keep the other dog I'm not training nearby, tied on leash to the table or in a playpen. Then I do group training and reward the fastest dog only (eg. the dog that sits first, or comes running to you first when you do a recall). It builds their competitive spirit! :wink2:

4) Brie is really barking when someone enters or leaves the house (front door is the trigger), would clicker training help this?

Yes, you can train Brie to do an incompatible behaviour to barking when the front door opens. You can train Brie to run to its crate and lie down or lie on a mat away from the door. It's all about rewarding the behaviour you want EVERY TIME the door opens (once you train "Go To Mat" or "Crate Up", tell him to do it every time before someone leaves or enters the house and reward heavily for him going there and quietly lying down).

If you don't teach your dog what you want it to do when the door opens, it will do what it thinks it is right, that is, bark!

Hope that helps!! On youtube, the user "kikopup" has lots of great videos on how she clickertrains different things, which you might find useful!
 
1) Absolutely! CLicker training basically just helps you mark the behavior you want. Since they are having some problems knowing what you are asking of them it would be a great tool.

2) I totally agree with romeosangiovese for using shaping to help get their focus on what you want instead of being focused on the treat. Sure they remain excited to get the treat but when they learn to do some shaping, they start to look at you to figure out if the behavior they are offering is what you want.

I recommend looking at this thread for examples of how you can use shaping in a game (for a trick) to get them used to offering behaviors. I really recommend doing some trick training like that once in a while just to reinforce learning. Kyara has gotten so much better with her recall, heeling and plain listening to what we want since I started shaping some tricks with her. http://www.sheltieforums.com/showthread.php?t=11204

3) I only have one dog (for now :P) so I will let other people give tips here. Romeosangiovese's tip sounds great.

4) Again great tip above! Try to do many setups with you guys leaving. Maybe do that 2 or 3 times a day for five minutes at a time. A person leaves and you click and treat for good behavior (I would use extra yummy treats for this).
 
I am a HUGE proponent of clicker training. I first tried it in Edan's basic behavior class at 8 months old. OMG did he pick things up quickly. I continued to use it through agility training or any other training I've done with him. I find he picks things up VERY fast with the clicker vs. a verbal marker like "yes". (I do use the verbal marker also because I don't always have a clicker on me.)

1) Do you think they would benefit from clicker training?
Definitely! As was already mentioned, you can also use a verbal marker like "Yes". Just keep your verbal marker something very short.

The site www.clickertraining.com is very helpful and I know there are also videos on YouTube and probably How.com.


2) When I use treats for training they often become obsessed with the food in my hand rather than the task. It makes training difficult, how do I fix this?

The only think I keep in my hand is the clicker; the treats are in a treat bag at my side or on a table somewhere. My dogs have learned that when the clicker is out, treats are coming so they become very attentive because they want to know what to do for the treats.

Since the click (or verbal marker) marks the correct behavior, the treat can follow a few seconds later with no adverse consequence. The treat should follow as closely behind the click as possible though - no more than 5 - 10 seconds.

The biggest thing is NOT repeating a command. If you ask them for a "sit", wait them out - especially if they are familiar with the command. If they are just learning it, help them by luring with the treat the first few times.

If they are learning something complex, reward in small increments. For example, if you want to teach them to spin in a circle, click/treat for turning the head in the direction you are moving the treat in. Then add them having to take a step before the click/treat; then 3 steps; then a quarter of the way around, half way around, three quarters, finally the full circle.


3) I have to train them separately otherwise they push in at each other to get the treats. Is this OK?

Definitely spend time training them separately. It's good for each dog to have one-on-one time with you. Also work with them together to reenforce the behavior whether they are by themselves or not.

You can train your dogs to wait patiently for a treat; teaching them self control. We actually do this as a game in our Intro to Agility class. If you are interested, I can go into further detail. I don't want to derail your thread with it.


4) Brie is really barking when someone enters or leaves the house (front door is the trigger), would clicker training help this?

As someone mentioned, you can train her to "go to X" when someone is interacting with the front door. For my example, I'll use a mat as the target.

Start by training the dog to go to the mat. While standing near the mat, toss a treat onto it while telling Brie, "Brie, go mat". Click/treat (yes, a 2nd treat) when she goes onto the mat. Repeat this process with the treat toss about 10 times and take a break. Come back to it a few ours later, this time toss only 5 treats on the mat (one at at time), then send her to the mat without tossing the treat and WAIT HER OUT. When she goes to the mat, click/treat and LOTS of praise.

Slowly move further and further away from the mat.

Once she really understands going to the mat is a good thing, start adding the front door. Send her to the mat, reach for the front door - but don't open it. If she stays on the mat, click/treat. If she moves off it, "Oops!" and try again - no click/treat.

Basically just keep building the skill until you can open and close the door with people coming and going without her going crazy.
 
1) Do you think they would benefit from clicker training?
CT is just a method, if you not comfortable using it then it probably won't.
Why your pup will prefer you over the running rabbit? It is all about training and CT is only one step. You gotta be the cookie for your pup and until then you can not compete with reinforcement environment provides. None of us really can but providing our pup with plenty of positive choices will build enough your bank account of good responces. I would never be without Gentle Leader in distractable situation.
For recall, start calling every day 10 times your pup in the house, put some treats in diff places so you can easily grab it. Watch when your pup get distracted- call. Make a big goofy party when he comes. Tugging really helps to develop fun. Never call your dog to do something he does not like- go get him. 10 times a day for 2 weeks- you will see a difference. Then move it to backyard, to your friends yard, etc
2) When I use treats for training they often become obsessed with the food in my hand rather than the task. It makes training difficult, how do I fix this?
Use lower value treats even if you have to give them apples:lol: What you have to teach them "Its your choice game". There is plenty of clips on youtube but basically you put your food in your fist and they get it only when they perform certain behavior like turn their face away from your fist etc
3) I have to train them separately otherwise they push in at each other to get the treats. Is this OK? I train both of mine, one is taught to go to bed and wait for his turn but it is a skill which needs to be trained separately
4) Brie is really barking when someone enters or leaves the house (front door is the trigger), would clicker training help this?
Concetrate on what you want to happen when someone enters the house...
then train for it whether with clicker or not. Get an assistant, teach your pup first to go to the mat or sit when door opens, then practice with live people coming and going. CT will help.
 
Thank you very much for the advice. I will go through the references and then I think I will give it a try.
 
Oh regarding the verbal marker, I was watching a training seminar DVD some time ago, and this trainer (I forget who), said that the word "Yes" actually isn't a great word to use because of the "sss" sound. She suggested using something like "Yup" instead coz it's more punchy!
 
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