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Agressive Behavior going Outside to the Backyard

Discussion in 'Behavior' started by jrenee97045, Jul 3, 2017.

  1. jrenee97045

    jrenee97045 Forums Novice

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    Aug 14, 2016
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    My sheltie is wonderful. I love her very much. She is my companion, confidante, and friend. She is 13 months old.

    Our family has four dogs ranging from a chihuahua to an english mastiff. All the dogs are none aggressive and get along very well, including Mollie (my sheltie). A behavior she has shown lately is escalating. At first, when I would let her out the back door to go into our fenced yard to do her business, she would have what others called the "zoomies" running in circles and barking in excitement, but now her behavior has escalated to running in circles, barking, and now lunging and hitting the sliding glass door causing it to shake. This would go on for up to a minute before she calms down to go do her business. Her behavior feels more like aggressive behavior than "zoomies" to me because when she hits that glass door, she hits it hard. The only time she does not do this, is if I walk her out on a leash, but then she is limited in her ability to move around to do her business.
    • I have tried tossing bits of dog food or treats onto the patio in hopes to distract her behavior. That lasted about 4x, and she's back to her behavior hunting for the bits after she is done with her aggressive behavior.
    • I have tried calming chews.
    • I've tried walking out with her without a leash, but that doesn't seem to detract her either.
    • I've tried a citronella bark collar to distract her, but it doesn't seem to have any affect.
    It's almost as if she is so emotionally tied into what she is doing that she's out of control.

    Typically, I make her "place" before she goes out the door, but the other day, she was so wound up that she jumped up and bit my knee and broke a small scab I already had. It took me by surprise and she went out the door before I could make her place. I yelled (I didn't "scream" - don't like screaming at dogs) at her to come, then I scolded her and made her go "place" in her gated area. Five minutes later, we tried again, and she went out without incident.

    I can't figure out why she's being so aggressive. She also suffers from separation anxiety. When I leave or I'm gone, she barks constantly, which creates a problem for the other human members of the household.

    Ironically, she has no issues with the dogs. A little herding now and then, but nothing as aggressive as when she goes out the back door into the yard.

    She's 13 months old, has gone through one heat, and is scheduled at the end of July for a spay.

    Any recommendations?
     
  2. Pam

    Pam Forums Enthusiast

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    Mar 4, 2017
    We had that with Beau and his zoomies--he would jump up with open mouth during the excitement, and of course that means possibility of a cut or mistaken bite. I extinguished it with a definitive "NO" and knee up if he jumped up and tried to get the "NO" out before he reached me. It has worked and he will completely run the circles around humans but not jump or "attack" them. My guess is the problem is two-fold: 1) she can see the reflection in the door and is jumping at the other dog 2) she doesn't know to control or direct her zoomies. Beau has been a barker/lunger since early on so I have worked extensively with him. One thing that is very helpful is setting up a temptation and on leash walking him toward it and then calling him back before he reaches it. The second he turns his head toward me, he gets a "yes" or click and treat. That has not only worked for walks, and airplanes but also the zoomies. If he gets too close to another person/object outside I call him and he turns immediately (he doesn't always come immediately but he turns) and that turn helps.

    I can't comment on the separation anxiety as Beau has not exhibited any (hopefully he never will but since he keeps picking up habits we need to break, who knows?) But I made sure to never make any big deal out of leaving, just a simple "I'll be back" and leave. I also leave him contained, either in the kitchen or his crate. I have always tried to minimize the leaving with all the dogs I have owned and none have ever showed separation anxiety signs. But I could just be lucky.

    I don't know how others handle this and I am not a trainer just giving what has worked for me.
     
    ghggp likes this.
  3. Phoebe'smom

    Phoebe'smom Forums Enthusiast

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    Oct 22, 2015
    With separation anxiety it helps to start with baby steps. Go out for a few minutes and then return without acknowledging the dog. Repeat often and lengthen the time. Phoebe causes a ruckus when she see me get my purse. (Very observant sheltie!) I make her sit, throw her some treats to chase and say ok, goodbye. When I return I wait a few minutes before I say hello. I think she just takes a nap while I am gone.
     
    jrenee97045 likes this.
  4. Cara Sandler

    Cara Sandler Forums Enthusiast

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    Jul 11, 2015
    Florida
    First thing is to take off the bark collar and never put it back on her. They do nothing but cause more problems. Shelties are far too soft to use something like that. I would recommend you consult a positive-only trainer to work on your pup's issues. This sounds like it is escalating quickly and you can't really afford to fumble around looking for a solution. Every single time she repeats this behavior will make stopping it harder.
     
    Pam likes this.
  5. tesslynn

    tesslynn Forums Enthusiast

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    I am not for any type of bark collar on a Sheltie, because usually a very FIRM affirmation is all they need. She is competing in a varied pack and I think that might be some of the issues. What works on other breeds, doesn't always translate well in behavior modification to a Sheltie. They can have weird fears, or shyness that if not dealt correctly can bring on worse behaviors. Sheltie's need extreme consistency, they prefer a schedule, some even need a job. They have to "get" the expectation, otherwise they act up. Step by step they need positive reinforcement to a desired behavior. That is why the bark collar thing is counterproductive to a Sheltie, they won't isolate. Zoomies are an expression of pent up excitement or energy. Is she getting quality one on one time? That matters to a Sheltie. I would leash her, take her out calmly, not let her break out and zoomie. If she tries, get her to focus, put her in a sit until she is calm and not bolting. Reward the efforts. Try not to have her interacting with the others until she gets the desired behavior. Too much interaction or interruption from the others is NOT helping her reach your desired goal. Take her to do her biz, let her finish, reward her for all positive moves, and not reacting. It has to be highly consistent now to break the pattern. Leashing her at the beginning is training and setting the expectation of acceptable behavior. It controls the situation that sounds chaotic at this juncture. Keep at it until it is a calm response EVERY time. Don't stop until she's exhibiting the right response, otherwise she will revert to the crazy, which isn't healthy for her, or you. You have a bad pattern now that needs altering, and an investment to undo the undesired behavior...GOOD LUCK!!!
     
    Cara Sandler likes this.
  6. Caro

    Caro Moderator

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    Honestly I don't think this is aggressive behaviour per se. It sounds more like attention seeking behaviours - an adolescent trying to find her place in a pack and perhaps not getting enough individual stimulation.

    I agree with Tesslyn. Don't let her rehearse the behaviour. She goes in and out on a lead and preferably without the others.

    How often is she getting walked? It sounds like your other dogs are not high activity dogs; remember a Sheltie is a sheepdog, without enough exercise they develop obsessive behaviours. A tired Sheltie is a quieter Sheltie. I agree with Tesslynn that she needs more one-on-one time so she's not focused on attention seeking from the other dogs.
     
  7. Pam

    Pam Forums Enthusiast

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    Mar 4, 2017
    I am just wondering if the lunging/barking at the glass door is an added element to the "zoomies", for instance are you behind the door? Is she lunging/barking to get your attention because you are in and she is out? Does she see her reflection? Does she see the other dogs inside?

    As for the zoomies, personally I have let Beau continue the running but he has learned control with them such that he will instantly turn when called, and stop totally short instantly with firm, calm and level "NO" (it is not loud or yelled or angry, simply flat and calm and firm). So the zoomies have turned more into a run to let off steam than an out of control/over threshold activity. That said he went out for months on a leash, then dragging a leash.

    Although I work with Beau mostly with total positive training, I have found he does well with a very calm verbal correction in some specific instances. So mostly his behavior is shaped with click/yes and treat/verbal reward; however certain unwanted behaviors will get a correction (eg. NOT jumping on people when running). This might be different than others but I am an SLP and work with very challenged children (many with ASD) and have found that some respond only to positive/errorless learning while others benefit from correction in certain areas. I applied this to Beau and it has worked so far. He has improved 100% in all aspects. Keeping my fingers crossed it all continues :) BTW the funny part about all of this is it took me forever to apply what I know from my work to working with Beau. Somehow I had just as much puppy brain as Beau did LOL

    Good luck. Keep us posted on how she is doing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2017
    Hanne likes this.

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