A Frame contacts

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DPSheltie

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We're back outside for classes (finally!!) which means that we are getting to use a full sized ring and all of our contact equipment. Well...Riley and I have been working hard all winter on his 2o2o and his teeter performance (and FOCUS).

I will say...other then green handler error...Riley was just awesome!! He LOVES being outside so much, as well as being able to run FAST.

We had a few HUGE revelations today in class:

1- Riley has AWESOME contacts on both the dog walk and the teeter. He is 100% solid on the dog walk (though it was at a low height, but he rocked the contacts). And the teeter seems 95% (no fear)..it would be 100 but he was startled by the outdoor teeter's "looseness" (it tipped faster/easier) so he jumped off it before it hit the ground in surprise. He was 100% on it afterwards.

2. I prefer going slower and making everything perfect, but Riley does better in class if I go faster and let him go. His focus was 100% improved since I did not stop as much to reward him. At one point we had trouble with a jump pattern and his reward for following me was to run more of the course. If I stopped him for a reward (other than contacts), he would have a fit...running and barking at me. Our trainer calls him a 'busy, impatient boy'. I obviously need to get in better shape to keep up!! (what I would't give to see him handled by a more experienced person to see what he does for them!!)

3. As nice as our 2o2o contacts are for the dog walk....Our A frame contacts SUCK!!!! He goes too FAST over the Aframe (even doing it on his own) to be able to stop at the bottom and often does not touch the yellow. He jumps off... I'm at a loss on this one. Should I train a running contact for the Aframe and leave the others 2o2o OR figure out how to massively slow him down over the A frame? A target plate does not deter him either...
He still jumps off then targets.....:rolleyes2::rolleyes2:
 
That is really great that Riley was confident and speedy--I'm sure he was in his element!

Here are my thoughts on the a-frame, though I'm no expert, I would say that training a running contact is HARDER than a 2o2o. The criteria (from both a human and dog perspective) is harder to keep consistent. I'm not saying it wouldn't work, but a lot of people go to running because they think it is easy or natural to do the dog, and that isn't always the case.

Some people (a small percentage, I would think) get lucky and their dog strides perfectly and they never have to teach a thing, but most people have to work really hard to get a consistent running contact. Plus, as the dog gets more experience, more amped up, their strides may change and then all of a sudden you have to start your training over (*ahem* me *ahem*, ha!)

You said that Riley won't stop for a target plate. Is it because his momentum carries him up, over and down so quickly that he isn't able to stop? Are you seeing him run down then try to stop, pop off and turn around for the treat on the plate?

If that's the case, I wonder if it would help to lower the a-frame so that he is more easily able to hang on (it's the angle that makes it hard for them to control their back end to hang on). You could also work some rear-end awareness and strength as that helps too.

Or, does he not care at all about the treat on the target plate and just blows past it, never looking for it? If that's the case, you can try a couple things. 1--a yummier treat (something delicious, stinky, that he doesn't get ANY OTHER TIME). If he still misses it even with the yummy treat, take him back and show him what he missed. You can even show him that it's there before hand. If it's yummy enough, I can't imagine him going past it.
 
Thanks!

I think it is a combo of both issues. He tends go REALLY fast over the A frame (he LOVES it) and fly over the top...unfortunately this means that he is going very quickly down the A frame also, so it is harder to stop.

On the other hand...I have even put steak down on the target (and cheese, chicken, venison, etc). He will still fly over the A frame, then launch off above the contact, then turn around to snag the treat!!:hide Little stinker!! Sometimes he won't even care about the treat...running is FAR more important!!

I think we will have to do lots more backchaining on the A frame (although he can do a 2o2o when allowed to only go down the one side.....).

It's sad....he actually used to have a perfect contact on the Aframe..... more training!!
 
Can you use big chunk/ visible/ of great food, thrown ONLY when he hit the contact right? So it would look like- get frame lowered, ask him to do lets say Jump wrap/ so you have time to run slightly ahead to the frame / and during his downhill move/ both of you are moving in same direction throw treat rolling ahead of him if he hit yellow?
Another thought... do you use travel plank? If you have steady 2o2o on travel plank you can put it on the end of very low frame as to help generalize behavior?
I have another set of problems-:lol:Che was trying to offer 2o2o from the table?
 
My first thought is.....why did his AF behavior change? Is he running faster? Is he more confident? Etc. I think I would start there. Figure out why it fell apart, or what could have caused it.

Once you figure that out, I think you'll be able to figure out if you can repair it or if you'll have to retrain it (regardless if it's 2o2o again or running).
 
k9kreationz said:
My first thought is.....why did his AF behavior change? Is he running faster? Is he more confident? Etc. I think I would start there. Figure out why it fell apart, or what could have caused it.

Once you figure that out, I think you'll be able to figure out if you can repair it or if you'll have to retrain it (regardless if it's 2o2o again or running).
Click to expand...

I think you hit the problem right on the head.... When we trained the contact, which ment he went slow. But we did it as an only obstacle or as part of a shorter sequence inside in a smaller ring. Now that he has more room and are outside AND as part of a longer course he is getting more and more confident. Bad (or good) combination of speed and confidence.

When I first taught the Aframe, he had a beautiful natural running contact, but we were training 2o2o for all contacts. Maybe I made a mistake trying to teach the 2o2o for the Aframe.... Or it could have been unavoidable either way since he would have probably lost his contacts anyway as he gained confidence.

Well...two steps forward and one back :cool:
 
Yup, I so understand. I was doing great on Koji's DW contacts in class. We usually do tighter courses. The first time I did an ASCA trial to test them, OMG, there was this one part and we were HAULING!!! I couldn't even slow down, so I know Koji couldn't either. I was like, "oh yeah, ASCA, fast courses, lots of running, why didn't I slow down? (bang head, bang head)" LOL.

And my lovely work-around for Koji's AF running contact (for now, since I'm retraining them, slowly. DW first).....slowing down so I'm behind him and he says, "hey, watcha doing back there?" And he pauses enough to move just a bit down the AF so he hits his contacts.

Koji used to have awesome contacts, then he gained confidence and speed, and those went down the drain. I think had I kept working on it, we might have been fine, but since I didn't, it's why I'm retraining them now....years later. Oops.

So, if being out in the open and him having more confidence and more space/obstacles to run, then just back up a bit, maybe lower the A-frame, maybe remind him what he's doing by putting him back on, etc. I'm sure it'll come back. He just needs to relearn control. :)
 
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