Agility at Sheltie nationals-thoughts?

[Silaria]

It's the Greater St Louis Agility Club Trial held in Glen Carbon IL (right near the nationals. you could get a hotel between the two sites and be set for the weekend).
I've been to this show site before, and it's pretty nice, and well run. I'd say it's definitely worth it if you're up in the air about going because of the 1 day agility at the nationals to consider going that one day and plan to spend the rest of the weekend at the Glen Carbon show It definitely makes the weekend more worthwhile for the agility crowd.

I think those of us planning to come for the agility should plan to meet up.

Great to know. Staying in between the two locations may be a better option than the camp ground I'd already made arrangements to stay in (and currently without some roommates so couldn't afford that anyway).

I'll have to look for the premium for this.

I think it would be GREAT if those of us planning to come for agility, and decide to attend this show also, get together and cheer one another on.

As for the performance folks, it's just another agility/obedience/rally/herding trial... and not a very attractive one for their money given it's only one day. It isn't the best of the best necessarily. It's the best of who shows up. It's not like the invitational or the agility nationals where it is the top dogs competing, and winning or placing high there really means something. There is no real benefit for a performance person to compete there. The bragging rights aren't the same as for the conformation people. They're also often treated like second class citizens. Now really, who wants to show up for that when there are agility trials where they're treated fairly, and given more than a day to participate? Nobody goes to what amounts to just another day of trialing.

For me, running at Nationals is more about "because I can" than prestige.

Unfortunately this isn't the first time I've heard about the performance people getting the short end of the stick and being treated as second class to confirmation folks. Heck, we got a good picture of that at AKC Nationals a few years ago when the agility folks were left, literally, out in the rain.

Like you, it makes me laugh when they clubs/organizations say the performance events don't make money when at the same time they don't do anything to make it worth people's while to compete. Our local kennel club no longer offers performance events of any kind at their show because "they lost money on it". We may not do conformation but we aren't stupid; make it worth our time and money and we'll show up. Treat us like second class...

Anyway... this option, plus getting a chance to really spend some time with some SN people at the trial would really make that long trip really worth while.

 

[k9kreationz]

My two cents.......

I admit, I didn't even realize the agility was one day. I thought it'd be like a regular trial or even a 3-day weekend. Wow. Knowing that, I would say that I would not, in anyway, or any reason, travel beyond my area to go to the ASSA National. Why? Mostly because it's not worth it for one day. If it's in my area (even a hotel stay), I'd be willing to go, see all the Shelties and do my one day of agility. Kinda like I did with the Sheltie Specialty that was about 100 miles away.

The National is being held within 60 miles of me in 2013. I'd go and I'd go to see what else they have that may cater to me, OR just to check out the Shelties in conformation (because I know Tami would be there too, lol).

But to go out of state? Or even up to Northern CA? No thanks. I'd only put that stress on my dogs if it was worth it. Meaning, AKC Nationals or Invitational, NADAC Nationals, etc. Assuming I'd even qualify.

And lastly, if it was close enough by, I'd go to hopefully see other SN people too. Even in AKC, I don't see a lot of Shelties. In NADAC even less. So I wouldn't even know the competitors. I only recognized a few of the Shelties at the Specialty. And since I'm not competing in Excellent yet, I definitely don't know those people. Unfortunately, it wouldn't be a party for me, that's for sure.

I guess that's why I don't mind NADAC so much. You see the same people over and over and over again. Even with AKC, I haven't seen the same people. Almost all the time, the groups are completely different. The only time I've seen the same group, is when a specific club holds trials.

However, I do see a lot of other types of dogs at the same trials all the time. Where are all the Shelties? LOL. No wonder they don't make any money off of us. And I agree, bring in some great names to a seminar and we'll be there! After Tami explained to me who Marq Cheek was (and I learned more about him), I was impressed he was our judge at the Specialty. It seemed more "special" that he has a Sheltie. Just made it that more fun.

I personally feel like with any mainly conformation group, like AKC, they forget about us agility people. I haven't felt that personally, but have read a lot about it. Maybe they can just make an ASSA Invitational Agility Only event. I bet you, they'd get their money back.

Thanks for listening. Stepping off the box now.

 

[HopeShelties]

Not many shelties out your way in agility? Come here and you'd find it pretty different. Border Collies rule the 20-26" divisions here, and Shelties rule the 12-16". Sure, you'll find an occasional other breed, but by and large, it's almost entirely shelties competing in AKC agility here. Not only that, it's the same people, depending where I'm competing. Generally, I run into the same people in Ohio, then the same ones in Indiana, and the same ones in Illinois/Missouri when I go that far out. It seems weird that there aren't more shelties competing where you are. I guess I take for granted how many there are here.

 

[Caro]

Well I would be disappointed. Aren't speciality shows about showcasing the breed and I think agility is one of the few things that show the physical aptitude and intelligence of the sheepdog in our shelties. This year the Illawarra Sheltie Club took agility out of their speciality show and I was very upset, esp as the National Sheltie Show is only every third year. Now we rarely have more than one-day trials so going for only a few runs doesnt phase me. Obviously it does depend on how far people drive, but here we are used to driving distances to participate in sports - and I will be driving the 10hrs to the sheltie nationals next year for my 2 or 3 runs.

 

[ClantyreSheltie]

Maybe they can just make an ASSA Invitational Agility Only event. I bet you, they'd get their money back.

ASSA will never do any regional events, because that takes work. And the people that work to put on these events probably aren't ASSA members. That and I'm not sure they know what the capabilities of their own members are. When I rewrote their membership application (everything but that horribly written first page), I made sure that they actually know something about the people applying, as opposed to name, address, and check number.

So I encourage all specialty clubs to get licensed for agility, then go for it. It sounds like there are two clubs now doing agility specialties, that CA club, and the Baltimore Club. I know our little trial makes money, we even had to hire a second judge one year. But its two days, and we own our equipment.

 

[k9kreationz]

When I rewrote their membership application (everything but that horribly written first page), I made sure that they actually know something about the people applying, as opposed to name, address, and check number.

It's funny, but sad. And I'm curious, why do you have to have a championship title on a dog to become an individual member of ASSA? Do they prefer people become members of clubs, versus the actual organization? Or is that to limit it?

Well I would be disappointed. Aren't speciality shows about showcasing the breed and I think agility is one of the few things that show the physical aptitude and intelligence of the sheepdog in our shelties.

I'd agree with this. I know Tami was saying they are even going to try and get herding next year at the Sheltie Specialty I went to. I would love to see a herding competition. I'm sure some people must train in that. I was going to, but wasn't sure if I wanted my dog to herd things, lol.

Not many shelties out your way in agility? Come here and you'd find it pretty different. Border Collies rule the 20-26" divisions here, and Shelties rule the 12-16". Sure, you'll find an occasional other breed, but by and large, it's almost entirely shelties competing in AKC agility here.

I'll see what there is today, but honestly, maybe I'm just new and don't see a lot. OR maybe it's because I go later (open) and they're done/gone. i.e. yesterday, it took me what, 3 hours to realize all the dogs running were 20"+ LOL. I forgot that they had run the smaller dogs earlier before I got there.

Even at the "bigger" trial that's close to my home, I may see a dozen Shelties (and they're about split btwn the 12 and 16 heights). BC's definitely do not rule anything as there are a ton of Aussies. Interesting. So you could be TOP Sheltie on the west coast, and rank 100 across the country. Very interesting.

 

[ClantyreSheltie]

Yes, you should join you local club, because that is where the education is. Everything I learned came from local people. I think ASSA encourages people to join local clubs, which is good.

But yes, the policies were put in place to keep people out, certainly not to increase membership.

My speculation is that with the previous (reasonable) requirements, too many "performance" people were joining. Since it is ASSA's job to keep the standard, the board was afraid that the new people joining would be voting on any potential standard changes. They decided that people who do not do conformation do not have a good understanding of the standard, and should not be able to vote. They attempted to introduce a non-voting associate membership, but the membership voted it down. Many members I have talked to said had they known the new champion rule was the alternative to the associate membership, they would have voted for the associate membership. So the new champion rule was passed by the board, without membership vote or approval.

There are two ways of handling Parent clubs.

1. Like the Collie Club of America does: Let everyone in, work them, teach them. Collies are a fairly healthy breed, few major health issues, and most are structurally sound. They also have a good base of specialty clubs people can join to learn.

2. Like the Poodle Club of America does: By invitation only, so only the top breeders get in. Poodles are riddled with structural and health defects, and they voted to change the standard to allow gay tails, because PCA members thought it was too hard to breed it out. Local clubs are loosely structured, and are few and far between.

Hmm...

 

[HopeShelties]

I would bet that is a lot of it. Most dogs of any breed are in excellent, and when excellent is over, most go home/back to the hotel for the day. Novice and open are always relatively small, so you're not going to see many for that reason.

 

[Wyosheltie]

Well I'll put in my $.02. I started in the dog sport for obedience many moons ago. I feel that a well rounded dog should have titles on both ends. And a Sheltie is bred for herding, and performance and should be given the opportunity to show this. I think the national club should give the dogs the chance to show this, not just how "pretty" they are. I think that they would possibly more participation if they had more performance events. And this leads to more members, and so on.

Tim

 

[HopeShelties]

They decided that people who do not do conformation do not have a good understanding of the standard, and should not be able to vote.

I'm always amused that they did that, given how many people I know just co-own a dog with a big time breeder who dont participate really at all, and know little to nothing of the standard, and are just there on paper on a particular dog to get their CH to become ASSA members. Owning a conformation CH doesnt mean you know anything about the standard...
Shame our parent club is so bent on keeping people out, and aren't embracing change. The performance venues are what are growing... not conformation. I guess that's why we now have the AWSS, which gives the performance people a club that actually supports them.
A friend and I are actually looking into starting a sheltie performance club here, as our local club doesn't give a flip about performance people. They have straight up told people who inquire about joining that they don't really think the club is for them to keep them out. The ones that do get in are ignored... or they put on a show at meetings, only to do differently behind the scenes. I know... I was a member who tried to bring about some change, and make it a club for everyone.. pet people, performance people, and conformation people. I even backed it up by volunteering to head up anything to do with performance. I got a lot of lip service at meetings, and then would get private emails from the president that they were canceling whatever performance thing we had planned in favor of just doing some conformation thing instead... and that I was still going to be in charge of what I had volunteered to run to help bring about change, when the new conformation thing wasn't what I was volunteering for. There are a large number of performance people in this area who've been left with a bad taste in their mouth from the local club, and they want nothing to do with it, or its members.