Agoraphobia?

[SheltieChe]

if she takes treats she will be fine
would caution you about watching your own behavior- SG mentions that any normal reaction "oh poor baby" is kiss of death for fearful situations.
Can you start house- back porch even if it is one step out/ one step in?
Generally making her run and play inside to get her heart rate up and blood flowing might make it go better for the session.

 

[OntarioSheltie]

if she takes treats she will be fine
would caution you about watching your own behavior- SG mentions that any normal reaction "oh poor baby" is kiss of death for fearful situations.
Can you start house- back porch even if it is one step out/ one step in?
Generally making her run and play inside to get her heart rate up and blood flowing might make it go better for the session.

She will leave the house only if I ask her to, she's such a good girl. She'l also leave the house on her own to relieve herself, but she runs back in immediately.

If left to her own devices she will not. This morning the dogs were all racing around the house and playing and rough housing as a pack (sort of like a ball of flying fur, think Warner Bros. Tasmanian Devil ) so I called them to the back door like I always do so that the flying ball of fur could race out. Toby and Sadie raced out but Ginny put on the breaks.

I calmed her when she was very panicked (when I was still realizing what was going on with her), but most of my talking to her in our yard has been to praise her for good behaviors.

 

[Caro]

It really sounds like Tully and Ginny have similar personalities.

This is exactly what Tully did when she was attacked. She refused to go out the front door, if I picked her up and took her out she would tremble in my arms.

You've probably heard me say this before but fetch really made the difference. We started because I needed an activity she could do inside and we started with high value treats and lots of cheering to get her excited about it. At first we played in the house, then we moved it to the backyard and when I saw she was getting excited when she saw the ball I moved back inside and played inside the doorway with the front door open, then I stood outside the door and threw the ball inside to her then we moved on to the porch. It doesn't take long (you may not need to take it into the backyard first) and you do end up with a ball crazy dog. But it has been a great panacea for all sorts of confidence issues for Tully.

 

[BarbV]

None of this makes sense to me.

Can you run a little chronology of events?

It seems that these issues, at least for Toby, extend further in the past than the flash band?

I think its important to get to root causes of the behaviour change, which means detective work.

I'm dealing with that a little myself. Indy has suddenly gotten real skittish over the slightest loud noise. That means dropping a pencil! And Indy's skittishness, is causing Bacca to also be a little more jumpy.

Whatever the root cause, I think the solution is de-sentization. I have to do some research on that but I've got a general idea as to how to go about it. I'm going to be trying it on my boys.

 

[OntarioSheltie]

None of this makes sense to me.

Can you run a little chronology of events?

It seems that these issues, at least for Toby, extend further in the past than the flash band?

I think its important to get to root causes of the behaviour change, which means detective work.

I'm dealing with that a little myself. Indy has suddenly gotten real skittish over the slightest loud noise. That means dropping a pencil! And Indy's skittishness, is causing Bacca to also be a little more jumpy.

Whatever the root cause, I think the solution is de-sentization. I have to do some research on that but I've got a general idea as to how to go about it. I'm going to be trying it on my boys.

Ginny has always been sensitive and a bit nervous. Periodically we had issues with her peeing in the house.

Toby, who we got at the end of October 2010 started out nervous, and his nerves escallated to anxiety over a course of 1 1/2-2 months.

Since Toby has been anxious, Ginny has become more and more nervous/anxious. In the spring Ginny began peeing in the house while we were at work every day. I began crating her with her thundershirt on and the urinating stopped.

In mid June we went to Woofstock where both Toby and Ginny were traumatized by the flash band. Toby took several leaps backwards and became a nervous wreck again. Ginny began peeing in her crate daily, no matter what we did. We discovered with the use of my web cam that Toby barking was her trigger. We started crating Toby elsewhere and medicating him and eventually Ginny's urinating stopped.

A week and a half ago the dogs were playing in my neighbor's yard when all of a sudden Ginny was running in terror. I was outside with her and didn't see or hear anything so think she may have either scared herself or been stung by something. Since then she is too uptight in the house to play and is beside herself with panic when outside.

Desensitizing sounds is exactly where you start when your dog has noise anxiety BarbV. Since we just had Canada day, my thought would be that he was a bit traumatized by the sound of fire works.

The problem I've run across with both Toby and Ginny is that they're too afraid to be sensitized. Ginny especially, is so afraid outside that she completely shuts down. I've been giving her some of Toby's Xanax in an attempt to calm her down enough that she can be desensitized.

 

[BarbV]

I'm not sure where you should start, but de-sensitizing seems to be the way to go.

I'm no animal behaviourist, but I do think that is something that you can tacke of on your own.

It's all about baby steps. You'll probably need to start with Toby since he seems to be the instingator, even though Ginny apparently has her own issues as well.

You'll want to this separately to start, I think, and then work them together.

But were to start???? Separation anxiety and noise seems to the the biggest issue. Who do you think is top dog? I would start with that dog first. The other will follow the lead, I think.

Start with the separation. Put the dogs into their crates, treat, and leave. Wait outside the house. As soon as barking stops, come back in, release them and treat. Again and again and again....making it longer each time.

You can also do this with the dogs inside the house in a separate room, which you leave. That works well too. In fact, it might be better because you can treat them faster.

Once you've settled that, than I think noise will be better. I've not solved this problem yet myself, but I know the theory. But deal with the separation first.

I hope this helps some. I'm no expert and I have my own issues with crazy barking dog (when I'm with them).

I think we just need to be abit more alpha with our dogs. My tuppence.

 

[OntarioSheltie]

I'm not sure where you should start, but de-sensitizing seems to be the way to go.

I'm no animal behaviourist, but I do think that is something that you can tacke of on your own.

It's all about baby steps. You'll probably need to start with Toby since he seems to be the instingator, even though Ginny apparently has her own issues as well.

You'll want to this separately to start, I think, and then work them together.

But were to start???? Separation anxiety and noise seems to the the biggest issue. Who do you think is top dog? I would start with that dog first. The other will follow the lead, I think.

Start with the separation. Put the dogs into their crates, treat, and leave. Wait outside the house. As soon as barking stops, come back in, release them and treat. Again and again and again....making it longer each time.

You can also do this with the dogs inside the house in a separate room, which you leave. That works well too. In fact, it might be better because you can treat them faster.

Once you've settled that, than I think noise will be better. I've not solved this problem yet myself, but I know the theory. But deal with the separation first.

I hope this helps some. I'm no expert and I have my own issues with crazy barking dog (when I'm with them).

I think we just need to be abit more alpha with our dogs. My tuppence.

Um, neither dog HAS separation anxiety. Both have general anxiety. Toby doesn't bark because I leave, he barks when he hears sounds outside that scare him. I tried to desensitize him for 9 months before deciding to medicate him, so I know all about how to desensitize, it just didn't work with Toby.

Ginny is peeing when Toby gets upset at sounds, which is often hours after I've left. Ginny is most upset outside, where she completely shuts down. There is no desensitizing her, you can't desensitize when the anxiety is so bad they can't think.

 

[OntarioSheltie]

It really sounds like Tully and Ginny have similar personalities.

This is exactly what Tully did when she was attacked. She refused to go out the front door, if I picked her up and took her out she would tremble in my arms.

You've probably heard me say this before but fetch really made the difference. We started because I needed an activity she could do inside and we started with high value treats and lots of cheering to get her excited about it. At first we played in the house, then we moved it to the backyard and when I saw she was getting excited when she saw the ball I moved back inside and played inside the doorway with the front door open, then I stood outside the door and threw the ball inside to her then we moved on to the porch. It doesn't take long (you may not need to take it into the backyard first) and you do end up with a ball crazy dog. But it has been a great panacea for all sorts of confidence issues for Tully.

This is a great suggestion, except that Ginny isn't ball motivated at all, never has been.. In the past she liked tugging so I've been trying to get her interested in various toys and her tuggie, but her anxiety is too great.

I took Ginny to see the vet a few days ago and she could find nothing wrong with Ginny. She didn't feel it was necessary to take blood or do x-rays, since Ginny's only symptom is anxiety and I agree. We'll be starting her on Zylkene next week, a natural 'drug' which recently became available here.

During our vacation Ginny improved slightly. She became more comfortable indoors and became a little playful, but was still very unsure. she was also fine with us carrying her outside and didn't get anxious until we put her down. It was interesting to note that she was most uncomfortable on natural surfaces like rocks or grass, than on man made surfaces like the floor in the house or our dock.

We have a behaviorist coming to the house tomorrow to see if she can offer any suggestions for Toby (who of course has been doing great), so I'm hoping she can give me some suggestions on how to help Ginny too.

 

[danisgoat]

UGH....I feel terrible for you guys. You have really been through the ringer in the last year with your dogs. I hope that there is a light at the end of your tunnel. You are both such excellant Sheltie parents.

 

[sable]

UGH....I feel terrible for you guys. You have really been through the ringer in the last year with your dogs. I hope that there is a light at the end of your tunnel. You are both such excellant Sheltie parents.

Ditto!

Hopefully there is a way to resolve all of this for you soon.

(((((((((((((((((BIG HUGS))))))))))))))))))