AKC thinking of getting rid of the table?

Silaria said:
Tabitha, I'm not sure how familiar you are with AKC agility but the positionless table has only been in affect for about 1.5 to 2 years now. Before that a down was required. It was changed to positionless because handlers couldn't get their dogs to do a down on the table. They'd waste a lot of time fighting with the dog which added a LOT of length to an already long trial. The switch to positionless was an attempt to speed up the trial.

As far as I can tell, the members of the forum who compete in AKC, myself included, don't agree with that and feel it should have a behavior attached to it or done away with completely. (If I'm wrong with that statement everyone please forgive me. I'm basing it on what I've read.)
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Actually a down or a sit was required in AKC before the change. Many dogs couldn't do either. I have always sat my dogs on the table and continue to do so. I don't do USDAA and don't plan on it so I just have them sit, they are obedience dogs as well and have quick turn and sit on command
 
Justicemom said:
Actually a down or a sit was required in AKC before the change. Many dogs couldn't do either. I have always sat my dogs on the table and continue to do so. I don't do USDAA and don't plan on it so I just have them sit, they are obedience dogs as well and have quick turn and sit on command
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Oops. :o I've always done a down on the table because I occasionally run USDAA. I do make him wait for a command though because I can potentially do any position in TDAA.

This is why his table bouncing has me confused because it's a new behavior. He never use to bounce the table in USDAA or AKC. I'll work on it though. :yes:
 
I'd be all for just getting rid of the table. Agility to me is about running, jumping and completing obstacles. A table doesn't really make sense to me...BUT I do love being able to get a moment to breathe, figure out where I am, and set up for the next set of obstacles. Trax is trained to automatically lay down on the table though, so it doesn't really matter for our performance results.
 
There are plenty of other ways control is displayed on course without a tedious 5 second stop at a table that adds nothing to the course. Control is shown to collect and hit weave pole entries, doing a start line stay, doing threadles, wrapping a bar tightly after running full out down a line in extension, 2o2os. The dog is showing far more skill and control doing those things, and many more than getting up on a table and just hanging out.
I don't think asking a performance dog to do the table shows a whole lot of skill, and a dog trained to the highest level in agility obviously has a high level of training, and asking us to do the table to 'show skill' is silly when they have already learned to do much more complicated behaviors.
It just needs to go... especially paired with some of the things I have heard are coming in future rule changes. There was a cryptic message from a rep that trials filling with long wait lists is being addressed. To me, that points to them going the way of USDAA and taking all entries that arrive prior to close. Doing away with the table would certainly be the best way on course to help speed up run times to accommodate the larger number of entries. Sure, not everything fills, but we have many with 200+ run wait lists for some of the days.
I think if you had been trialing as long as some of us have, had the experience, and had seen what most of us have seen, you might feel differently. You would be hard pressed to find a long time serious exhibitor who felt the table is a must have at this point.
 
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HopeShelties said:
I think if you had been trialing as long as some of us have, had the experience, and had seen what most of us have seen, you might feel differently. You would be hard pressed to find a long time serious exhibitor who felt the table is a must have at this point.
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I agree. I just might fell differently:yes:! And I never once said the table was a 'must have'. Everyone has a different opinion. You don't like the table. There's nothing wrong with that. I do. There's nothing wrong with that either! It's just differences in opinion. Neither of us is wrong, nor are we right, so why argue?
 
It's just your opinion happens to be an unpopular one with a large part of the agility community at this point. AKC implements what they feel will better the venue. The sport is moving away from having the table. They do not need to backtrack and fix the table so they can keep it around.
And no, you didn't say it in my words that it must stay, but your posts looking for any way to fix it so it makes more sense to keep it points to you thinking it is an important thing to keep in our standard runs.
I think it will also bring the AKC a little closer in line with international competition. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but in europe the table does not appear in standard.
I have run in NADAC standard, and AKC ISC. Neither have a table. Both run great without it.
Your opinion is just one that is hard at this point for me to comprehend making any sense when I am out competing 2-3 weekends per month and I haven't run across anyone who would miss seeing it on course.
 
ClantyreSheltie said:
For sport. :wink2:

I think all dogs should have a CD before being awarded a MACH, because of a lack of control. So I'm OK with the table, in any position.
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I believe in Japan they have to have an obedience title to earn their agility championship.
The same could be said for conformation dogs. Many lack working ability.
I'm not sure though that having a CD would make most MACH dogs more in control. Mine is wild on course, but she easily obtained a CD with minimal training and won her classes. The environment and job are just completely different. They tend to pick up on it. It's like in Sadlebred country pleasure type horses who do hunter, english, and western. The change of tack signifies a difference of job and expectations. When shown hunt seat and western, a quieter horse is needed. The country pleasure horse should be up, and much more animated. The frame the horses need to work in is also different between the three classes. There are Saddlebreds who compete and win in all three classes, and give a different type of performance for each.
 
HopeShelties said:
It's just your opinion happens to be an unpopular one with a large part of the agility community at this point.
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Well duh :smile2: I thrive in unpopular opinion-land, apparently. Japan requires a CD before awarding a conformation grand championship as well, last I checked.

I just got some "recommendations" from a friend of mine that she is going to submit to the advisory committee, 55 of them, in fact. :eek2:

She would like to see increased incentives for clubs to offer the international courses. Things like allowing a QQ in ISC and either Standard or Jumpers to count towards a MACH. This brings AKC more in line with the International courses, and might entice clubs to offer it more frequently.
 
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