Always Hungry

Often when dogs have a problem with protein it is the protein QUALITY, not the protein QUANTITY, that causes the issue. Feeding a kibble that has high amounts of poor quality protein (ie. plant based protein) will be significantly different than a kibble that has high amounts of high quality protein (ie. animal based protein).

For information on how to interpret kibble ingredients and choose a high quality kibble, check out:
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/
and
http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/
 
Often when dogs have a problem with protein it is the protein QUALITY, not the protein QUANTITY, that causes the issue. Feeding a kibble that has high amounts of poor quality protein (ie. plant based protein) will be significantly different than a kibble that has high amounts of high quality protein (ie. animal based protein).

For information on how to interpret kibble ingredients and choose a high quality kibble, check out:
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/
and
http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/

Can you give an example of plant-based protein? Pro Plan "advertises" that the number 1 ingredient is chicken. But there's a long list of other ingredients

Thx much!
 
Plant based protein is anything that comes from a plant ... rice, wheat, corn, barley, tapioca, sweet potato, flax, etc. etc.

Here is the ingredient list for ProPlan Adult Chicken and Rice (I don't know if this is the exact formula you are feeding, I just took the "basic" one).

Chicken, brewers rice, whole grain wheat, poultry by-product meal (natural source of glucosamine), corn gluten meal, whole grain corn, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), corn bran, fish meal (natural source of glucosamine), animal digest, dried egg product, calcium phosphate, salt, potassium chloride, calcium carbonate, Vitamin E supplement, choline chloride, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), manganese sulfate, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, garlic oil, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite.


When reading an ingredient list, things are listed based on weight. The first item on the list is the item that makes up most of the mass of the food on an AS FED basis. So when looking at this ingredient list, the first item is "chicken". Good, right? Not really. Remember that the weight is taken "as fed", so that means BEFORE the moisture is removed. If a whole meat is listed, that means that the moisture content of the ingredient is counted in the weight of the item. So "chicken" is whole chicken, meat and moisture. When all moisture is removed (as it is in the process of making kibble) the actual amount of meat decreases dramatically. Keep in mind that meat is roughly 70% moisture. So while 1lb of "chicken" may seem like a lot, once the moisture is removed, it is really just 4.8oz of real chicken. So looking at the ProPlan ingredient list, when taking away the moisture of the chicken, that ingredient would more accurately appear further down the list behind brewer's rice and wheat. So in reality, the main ingredient of that food is rice and wheat, followed by chicken and then chicken by-products (rule of thumb, avoid all by-products in dog food, they are the garbage bits "beaks and feet" rejected by human food production). Listing a whole meat so that it appears closer to the top of the list is a tricky little scheme that manufacturers use to make their food look better than it is.

What you want to see is the first ingredient being a "meal" (chicken meal, lamb meal, beef meal, etc.). "Meal" means that all the moisture has been removed, so the weight of the ingredient is accurate to the amount of "meat", not the amount of meat + water. Ideally, there should be 3 identified meat products in the first 5 ingredients, with the first ingredient being a "meal". "Identified" meat products means that you know what species it came from. Avoid "fish meal" or "meat meal" or "poultry meal". Instead go for specifics like "salmon meal" or "lamb meal" or "chicken meal". See the difference?

More nastiness found in the ProPlan ingredient list ...
- "poultry by-product meal" ... the rejected pieces of unspecified bird species
- corn ... corn = bad
- animal digest ... again, an unspecified protein source. This could be anything from beef to road kill to euthanized shelter animals. Technically, they are all "animals". And digest is just nasty stuff. They take whatever bits of random animal they happen to purchase and then expose it to high acidity so that it essentially breaks down into a gooey slop.
- animal fat ... again, unspecified source
- fish meal ... unspecified
- salt ... purely for flavor to increase palatability. Unnecessary.
- menadione sodium bisulfite ... proven to promote/cause cancer
 
Just to compare and contrast (I don't work for the Orijen manufacturers :biggrin2:) here are the primary ingredients of the basic adult Orijen:

Deboned chicken, chicken meal, turkey meal, russet potato, lake whitefish, chicken fat, sweet potato, whole eggs, turkey, salmon meal, salmon and anchovy oils, salmon, natural chicken flavour, sunflower oil, sun-cured alfalfa, dried brown kelp, carrots, spinach, peas, tomatoes, apples, psyllium, dulse, glucosamine Hcl, cranberries, black currants, rosemary extract, chondroitin sulfate, sea salt.

There are other ingredients like grasses and roots that dogs would forage in the wild. Mind you, Fergus does a good job of finding these himself :lol:

The ingredients above combined with the points highlighted in GeeRome's post are the very reasons why I chose Orijen. I think in the US there are a few other comparable quality kibbles. Here in the UK we are a bit limited. No offence to anyone from Canada but I would much rather buy a food sourced locally than have one imported from Canada, it is more environmentally friendly for starters. However, I couldn't find one.

The two sites mentioned by GeeRome in an earlier post are very informative, worth a read if you feed your dog a kibble.

Adam
 
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Cali is the same way about her food but luckily her weight has been between 20 and 21.5 lbs for her past 3 visits. She eats in her cage and will lick the bowl after its empty for a good 3-5 minutes and then she has recently learned to pick it up and bring it to me and "sit pretty" waiting for more. She has not got as much exercise as we would like because of the cold ice/snow we have had here lately so I can't wait for summer to come so we can get back outside. How often should I get her thyroid tested to make sure all is well? She is 1.5 years old now.. Thanks!
 
Cutting back on the treats will help. And most dogs shouldn't eat as much as they tell you on the label (after all, they are trying to sell more dog food). Exercise is very important for shelties, and will also help take off the pounds. It was tough on my always hungry sheltie (she was on prednisone, and if saw how she acted you were sure she hadn't eaten in 3 days), but the exercise and cutting back on food and treats really helped. Hope it works for Cooper!!
 
Right now he's eating Nutro Ultra Weight loss at 2 cups a day along with too many treats, but all he thinks about is food.

I use kibble as a treat. If he is food obsessed like shelties are he will prob eat anything - so use part of his daily allowance of kibble as a treat.

Also - pumpkin, pumpkin, pumpkin. Cut the kibble in half and add cooked pumpkin.

The other option that noone has mentioned is switching to a quality tinned food. It is a lot harder to lose weight on kibble than moist food esp as the dog will feel fuller on the tinned food because of the extra moisture - and there is nothing wrong with moisture - it is water after all. You will find that tinned dog food now is just as good quality as any kibble.

My dogs also dont get breakfast - just a "little dog bone' to chew on to keep them occupied.
 
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