Apoquel

Besides the $$$ they throw the liability on the vets to figure out the dosage.

Its like some architects they don't give complete drawings so it is up to the
construction companies to figure it out and be responsible/liable.

I have to ask my vet is it safe to mix the thyroid pill, and need be the skin pill
with the heart worm meds. I listen to the ads on TV and think about my shelties.
If you take this pill here is the grocery list of side effects.

Hopefully they all work chemically together. I have to take Lady back to the vet
have him look at her and ask about pills. She has tolerated so much.

LOL talk about $$$ I paid $36 a bottle for shampoo, more money then I spend
on myself. So far I bought 3 bottles, so do the math.
 
Sometimes I should pay more attention to my signature. :cool:

Well, I'll make a comment, having worked for one of the biggest, if not the biggest biotech companies in the world.

Go here, and look at page 38 Fig 4.1
http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/10-02-drugr-d.pdf

As of 2004, more than a decade ago, private Pharm/Biotech R&D was $40B per year.

Most recent I found with a simple search is:
http://www.phrma.org/sites/default/files/pdf/2014_PhRMA_PROFILE.pdf

2014- 51B
So, while they seem to make a lot of money, and I admit they do, they also spend and lose 88% of all of that money on gambles that just don't end up working out with a useful product.


I'm not averse to improving competition for lower priced goods, maybe government supported bulk purchase, etc, etc.

However anyone who complains about patents and their need, when faced with an 88% failure rate, is going to be a dollar short and a day late.
Cut those out, and there are going to be no risk takers willing to spend those billions for the slim chance they have a success and simply recoup their R&D not too mention profits.

If it wasn't for patents, its doubtful you'd have insulin, or a host of other medicines.
 
Well, I'll make a comment, having worked for one of the biggest, if not the biggest biotech companies in the world.

Go here, and look at page 38 Fig 4.1
http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/10-02-drugr-d.pdf

As of 2004, more than a decade ago, private Pharm/Biotech R&D was $40B per year.

Most recent I found with a simple search is:
http://www.phrma.org/sites/default/files/pdf/2014_PhRMA_PROFILE.pdf

2014- 51B
So, while they seem to make a lot of money, and I admit they do, they also spend and lose 88% of all of that money on gambles that just don't end up working out with a useful product.


I'm not averse to improving competition for lower priced goods, maybe government supported bulk purchase, etc, etc.

However anyone who complains about patents and their need, when faced with an 88% failure rate, is going to be a dollar short and a day late.
Cut those out, and there are going to be no risk takers willing to spend those billions for the slim chance they have a success and simply recoup their R&D not too mention profits.

If it wasn't for patents, its doubtful you'd have insulin, or a host of other medicines.

yes, I can see the point here, but nature has less costly alternatives that are better tolerated by the body, not given to the side effects of most drugs and are CHEAPER> The whole premise of the pharma industry is making a PROFIT from selling compounds that reap bottom line benefits. Yes, they invest a lot developing products-won't dispute that, but what is neglected and overlooked is that many of the products aren't the ONLY salvation for health or cure. That is my beef, what isn't discussed or reported is the motive, I am of the camp that the motive is greed, not health in most cases, and I realize I am not popular for holding that opinion, but I can BACK it up with my own experience and research. Insulin is wonderful-a boom for many, and yet many diabetics would benefit from dietary changes, and lifestyle changes, many have boycotted insulin in favor of alternatives and have succeeded in regaining their health. Alas it is a two sided coin, as with most stuff. My passion is for people to research ALL the possibilities, but KNOW that what motivates the drug industry is mostly guided by a large profit margin, and sales ability.
 
Hmm, not trying to be argumentative and since I don't mind a debate...



yes, I can see the point here, but nature has less costly alternatives that are better tolerated by the body, not given to the side effects of most drugs and are CHEAPER>

That is true, too some extent.
I suppose we all could chew willow bark in place of aspirin, however I don't see the practicality of providing for tens of billions of doses of bark for current population, and the the potential for overdose is going to kill how many like Beethoven?

Unfortunately, even if we were to focus on using natural substances only, it would still require much the same type of infrastructure, investment and money driven R&D to meet economies of scale and support ongoing research.
If anything, its quite possible it would end up more expensive.


The whole premise of the pharma industry is making a PROFIT from selling compounds that reap bottom line benefits. Yes, they invest a lot developing products-won't dispute that, but what is neglected and overlooked is that many of the products aren't the ONLY salvation for health or cure.

I fail to see what the problem is with that premise.
Do you go in to work, and refuse your paycheck?
Most if not all of the big pharma companies have programs to supply drugs to those in dire financial need.
That seems to be neglected and overlooked too.
Companies have 7 years in which to make-up their expenditures and costs for a given product.
In addition to that 1 drug that does make it past clinical trials, there are 7-8 others at various stages of Phase 1-3 which failed, and numerous others which were investigated, researched and failed before P1.
Once that 7 years is up, the generics come in and spend $0 on anything but manf. and ramp up production using someone else's R&D to produce product at a much lower cost.

This is both the boon and rub of capitalism.




That is my beef, what isn't discussed or reported is the motive, I am of the camp that the motive is greed, not health in most cases, and I realize I am not popular for holding that opinion, but I can BACK it up with my own experience and research. Insulin is wonderful-a boom for many, and yet many diabetics would benefit from dietary changes, and lifestyle changes, many have boycotted insulin in favor of alternatives and have succeeded in regaining their health.

To be honest, this seems like more of a 1%'er discussion.
My nephew has Type 1, and no, the dietary changes don't do much beyond helping him keep broadly, and temporarily within a non-lethal range. If the majority of Type-1 diabetics were to boycott insulin, even with the best outreach and documentaries and online tutorials, you'd have hospitals overflowing with patients, and incredible numbers of deaths within weeks.

I googled for insulin and boycott, and didn't find anything in my brief glance. I did however run across an article or two that I've been watching for a while now, which focus on STEM cells and pancreatic pre-curser cells.
Some of the billions of dollars you disagree with are being spend on research that will in all likelihood allow us to grow new pancreatic cells in billary ducts and perhaps partially restore some form of pancreatic function.

If you know of something natural that will do this, or even simply work like insulin, then I'm sure many would love to hear of it. Of course to do that, I suspect it would take trained professionals, infrastructure and research facilities, labs, admin, and, and, and...


Alas it is two sided coin, as with most stuff. My passion is for people to research ALL the possibilities, but KNOW that what motivates the drug industry is mostly guided by a large profit margin, and sales ability.

I quit fail to understand why you think everyone else in the world is, in effect, stupid.

Drug companies exist to make money. Yes.
Car companies exist to make money. Yes.
Dog breeders exist to make money. Yes.

And if GlaxoSmithKline, Johnson & Johnson, Marck or Bayer can make an equivelent, and cheaper oncological, HIV, etc drug, then they will win market share and provide a lower cost drug to us. All while making big $$ for themselves.

I think most people get that.
The field is very much a science, with a capitol S like rocket Science and not any thing like producing an iPhone5, and then an iPhone6 the next year.
Thats simply engineering.
 
Are you prepared to pay less for a generic drug made say in India, with who knows what kind of controls and sanitation in the plants, or more for a generic/brand name made in well-controlled plants in North America? This is what is happening in human medicine.

It comes down to knowing what you give your dogs, where the drugs are from. Most of us don't have a 10 lb dog and a 150 lb dog needing the same medicine, so we would never know. I am sure the manufacturer knows this, Dr. Mac, but counts on the public never finding out.
 
with pharma companies making 95 BILLION in profit in 2015...for the major ones-I don't see that it is about what is best for a pet, a human, or for mankind in general. It is about PROFIT and ONLY PROFIT for the industry. I would NEVER ever trust anything they said, they printed, they tested, much less produced, because it isn't about wellness, it is SOLELY about GREED. Ask any pharma REP who is honest...well that is an oxymoron, ha. :lol:


Well, sorry for the getting off topic here- not my fault, I was just pointing out that it doesnt cost any more to put a 60 lb dog on Apoquel than a 20 lb dog, which is nice. (Especially if you own a 60 lb dog.)
However to address tesslyn's points, two takes-
1) It is a good thing that the likes of Henry Ford, Ted Turner, Steve Jobs , and Bill Gates were 'SOLELY about GREED" if that is how it is defined. Yes, they were ambitious, and financially ambitious, and they made huge bucketloads of money. They also immeasurably improved the lives of people with less energy and entrepreneurial spirit. We are FAR better off for their 'greed' than we would be if they had not existed. The same goes for pharmaceutical companies. They invest huge sums in many drugs that come up empty to provide us with a handful of miracles. They do it for profit, not out of kindness. That is just fine. Success SHOULD be rewarded, especially when it helps people.
2) That having been said, yes the unholy alliance between 'Big Pharm' and an increasingly amoral government has often been openly disgraceful. Medicines are often either unobtainable to many or wildly over priced because of political influence, which is unconscionable. But I would suggest that the fault there lies far less on Big Pharm, which works hard to provide us with miracles,(yes, for money), then with the government which is supposed to be our watchdog in such matters.
Again, I apologize and am done with the topic.

It is early, but early returns suggest that Apoquel is living up to the hype.
 
not that I have a dog that needs it at this time but this is promising to those who do need something like that:yes:

Absolutely. Telling people constantly that 'Your dog has by far the most common problem we see which, from August to October, accounts for about two thirds of our medical cases. Unfortunately, we don't have a very good answer,' does get old after saying it for four decades.
(Ok, that is not entirely true - for the first two decades we figured cortisone was the answer.)
 
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