Bark Collars

[mbfrench]

Oh....and I have tried exercising more also. I have taken them to parks and walked for an hour to come home and go CRAZY when the phone rings. I used a treadmill too!!!!

Hate to sound like a real downer...but did your husband know that shelties bark? And they bark alot if not redirected & trained early & persistantly to learn to hush.

I have 3 here,one is deaf & blind,and a lab.Each one of these dogs were taught at a very early age,to hush.But that's my household and not yours.

I always say a tired sheltie,is most times a fairly quiet sheltie.Redirection is key.When you have multiples,its a snowball effect.

Try using a very loud redirection sound (coins in a can),2 pans slapped together.That will get anyones attention.

Try using a clicker,when the dog is quiet.Only click during good behavior.

I still have the small coca cola decorative can(with coins),I used almost 7 years ago,with Earnhardt.When I got that can out of the cabinet when Trapp was very young,as he was a real digger.Earnhardt gave me the look.I'm serious,he was really wondering what the heck that can was doin still hanging around.

I could have Earnhardt let a warning grumble out,and it alerts Trapp & Jasper.Often times,they won't bark unless he sounds a bark.But it is for good reason about 100% of the time.

I know alot of shelties bark,and it can be annoying,but in my house,all I have to do is let them know I have had enough.And I have silence.

I do wonder how you & hubby react to the noises.These dogs easily feed off your energy.I wonder how noisey the home is.I think calmness in the home,also feeds to the ogs energy.
Our home is a quiet sanctuary during the day.Brian sleeps days,works nights.It is only him & I here. All four of the dogs stay inside,and I do not have the nonesense barking.They know better, all it takes is a look from me,and they don't go there.

now let it be feeding time,or play time,treats,well yes they do let us know,but its squelched when I say "hush"

 

[mbfrench]

I will definitely try re-direction and research the de-barking issue. PLEASE understand that my dogs are my world and the last thing I want is to hurt them or change their personalities! The bark collar has been suggested by several people including trainers at Petsmart and I just don't know what to do!!!!!!

Believe me,those folks that work there have not clue about the repercussions of a shock collar on a sheltie or collie.They don't even remotely qualify to be giving that info.
They are customer service clerks,that want to sell you a product,just because they know its on the shelves.Other than that...they are clueless.

 

[mbfrench]

Angie, I don't think anyone here thinks you want to do anything negative to your dog. If it didn't matter to you you wouldn't even ASK and just take the advice of John Smith on the street.

Trainers at Petsmart, and other stores, have the primary goal of selling the products the store carries. Trainers at these stores may not even be highly qualified and knowledgeable about dog behavior and especially the differences in how different breeds react to certain types of corrections.

Non-certified dog behaviorists (and that includes any trainer who hasn't studied dog behavior) and the Average Joe may only be familiar with shock, anti-bark, spray and other such collars. They may not be familiar with techniques like redirection.

The very fact that you are (1) asking for opinions from others with experience - and this forum definitely has folks with more experience than me on it and (2) CARE enough to want to try anything and everything possible for your furkids speaks volumes for you.

Don't worry, we're here to help and support you.

I agree!

 

[take4roll10]

Try using a very loud redirection sound (coins in a can),2 pans slapped together.That will get anyones attention.

I wouldn't consider coins in a can, pans slapped together or spraying water redirection. I believe it's negative reinforcement, which is the same exact thing as a citronella or shock collar. It'll get their attention, but it's not redirecting them to anything. You're training the dog to associate negative consequences with barking. If I bark, I get shocked. If I bark, I have to smell that nasty spray. If I bark, I have to hear that scary noise. To a fearful sheltie, coins in a can could have the same "shutting down" effect as a no-bark collar. If a sheltie is barking out a of fear, which some do, then scaring them with a noise or collar most likely won't solve the problem. It might stop them from barking, but it can also increase their fear and anxiety.

Redirection would be training your dog to do something else when the telephone rings or someone's at the door. You can train them to go in their crate, sit on a mat, get a toy, etc. This will become their job and you know Shelties love having jobs. If you don't give them one, they'll make up their own...like barking .

 

[danisgoat]

Redirection would be training your dog to do something else when the telephone rings or someone's at the door. You can train them to go in their crate, sit on a mat, get a toy, etc. This will become their job and you know Shelties love having jobs. If you don't give them one, they'll make up their own...like barking .

This is how I understand the concept of redirection, as well.

 

[BarbV]

Welcome to my world! Bacca is not a barker, but boy, Indy sure can let 'er rip! At just everything that you listed above. And he is the one that is debarked! So that is my only caution. Debarking, as someone said earlier, is actually bark "softening". It does not remove the bark entirely. I can't imagine what Indy would sound like if he WASN'T debarked!

If the dogs barked non-stop when I wasn't home, I would definitely consider debarking (or I should say RE-debarking). Instead, I am focussing on positive redirection as has been mentioned above and I'm seeing improvement.

I would certainly NOT use a barking collar unless I had exhausted ALL possibilities. But if it came down to that or losing the Shelties.....it would be a tough call. Part of me would feel like I failed and maybe someone else could do better. But in reality, I would never give them away. I would just DO better!

 

[mbfrench]

I wouldn't consider coins in a can, pans slapped together or spraying water redirection. I believe it's negative reinforcement, which is the same exact thing as a citronella or shock collar. It'll get their attention, but it's not redirecting them to anything. You're training the dog to associate negative consequences with barking. If I bark, I get shocked. If I bark, I have to smell that nasty spray. If I bark, I have to hear that scary noise. To a fearful sheltie, coins in a can could have the same "shutting down" effect as a no-bark collar. If a sheltie is barking out a of fear, which some do, then scaring them with a noise or collar most likely won't solve the problem. It might stop them from barking, but it can also increase their fear and anxiety.

Redirection would be training your dog to do something else when the telephone rings or someone's at the door. You can train them to go in their crate, sit on a mat, get a toy, etc. This will become their job and you know Shelties love having jobs. If you don't give them one, they'll make up their own...like barking .

Well I guess that is your definition,and yes...today seven years later(after Earnhardt) having shelties in the home here,it would scare the s**** of of one I'm sure.

And for some shelties,that are not well adjusted,and scared of thier own shadows,or display some very quirky behaviors,I certainly would not even think to use it. Some dogs bark purely because they are bored,and need stimulation and alot of it.These

You mentined the dog may shut down,well that is entirely possible.But then again not all shelties fit the bill.

I guess I consider ourselves lucky,and these guys were very quick learners,both were primed using the clicker at nine weeks,and were worked with on a daily basis for issues of barking.And they were taught they have that special place to be(crate or bed) when they misbehaved. Trapp was a digger,I mean Seriously a digger.None of them here are barkers.So I guess I'm lucky.

That would be like us using a startle behavior on Mia,say if she was not deaf,but blind.I'm not that behind the times,nor am I heartless.What worked for Earnhardt,becuase he was so hard headed,would probably send a sensitive sheltie into orbit.


Back when I KNEW NOTHING of dog training....the can worked very well for a silly,stubborn,mind of his own ankle biting lab.So don't judge me to what I wrote.

As far as me using the can,I used it to startle Trapp from digging.I was not standing inches from him. I kept the can on the sunporch,while he was outside.I did not go running like a maniac puppy owner and shake the can till he trembled.It was done from inside my porch.

If (and I stress IF) I saw him digging holes endlessly on fencelines,I used the can from the house. Most times it worked,and he walked away.Did he associate the loud noise with his bad behavior,I'm assuming so,as after he grew older the fun of digging wore off.

And I might add,I have a VERY well adjusted,very well mannered sheltie(s).I combined my startle techinques if they were used(not with Jasper at all) with loads of love,patience.And mostly love & patience was used.consistancy is key,no matter what you find that may work.

Bottom line...do better as an owner,know that shelties bark,be consistant,and reinforce good behavior.Instead of concentrating on ..oh my gosh..this dog is going to bark if I use a hair dryer,try introducing the hair dryer in a positive way.Baby steps,visual,touching,moving,turn it on,turn it off.

And I might add,,,,how about considering a Thundershirt?

 

[marymrumfelt]

I would really just suggest looking into debarking. Luckily, Hadley only barks when she's playing, and while annoying, VERY ANNOYING, I can handle it. Granted, she gets played with a bit less because of it (which is the reason I thought of debarking as that's not very fair!) Hadley does bark at the doorbell, but that doesn't bother me either as that's what dogs do--- alert you when someone is there.

 

[sheltiemom4]

I don't think the barking is out of fear or boredom. They are just very vocal, playful, and bark at ANYTHING that makes noise. We have a fenced in yard, I do walks, treadmills and we play ball every night. The zoomies also occur on a VERY regular basis. The only thing I have found to actually wear my dogs out is taking them out in the country where I board my horses and play frisbee. But, that only happens once a week or so. They bark and try to herd the horses, so, I put them in a kennel till I'm finished (which they bark continuously till I let them out)!!!

We were aware Shelties are vocal when we purchased our 1st one 4 yrs. ago and it wasn't an issue. It has just gradually gotten worse (with the addition of each dog).

THANK YOU all for the suggestions and comments. I REALLY appreciate your help and will work on re-directing training and check into the de-barking. My next vet appt. is in 2 wks and I will discuss it with my vet. Maybe I should just have the puppy de-barked while she is getting spayed!!!

 

[Caro]

With four shelties I think your options are a little bit more limited than people are allowing. One of the problems with many of the techniques is it may work for one dog but multiples its completely different. I would really consider debarking the worst culprit(s).

I have a chronic barker and I really understand where you are coming from. I have tried absolutely every technique there is, consulted numerous behaviourists and read every book and article I could get my hands on. Sometimes not matter what you do or how well trained or exercised your dog is they just bark.


Here are a few of the techniques I found more useful.

• A vibrating bark collar (called a Mello Yello collar). They are pretty cheap and its such a funny feeling to the dog that they learn to dislike it pretty quickly (it is definately not painful). I show Deska the collar now and he knows it means absolutely no noise. Since he got the hang of the vibrating collar I also have a bark house with an ultrasonic sound and it has reduced his backyarrd barking by about 50%. I doubt it would have worked so well without the vibrating collar (which also has an ultrasonic sound). None of the collars work on Tully but I have several colleagues at the dog club who have now purchased a vibrating collar. You only need to collar one or two dogs - just the worst ones. After a while they just be quiet at the sight of the collar, and most dogs are smart enough to work out the vibration/sound/spray is coming from the collar no matter how you introduce them to it.

• redirection to some extent. I used to get greeted by a barrage of barking at the front door. Now I leave a squeaky toy at the door and the dogs will pick them up and squeak a greeting. It did take a while to teach them to squeak instead and I have found no other times where the redirection technique works.
• controlled barking - this is a technique I was given by a vet behaviourist for chronic barkers and breeds prone to barking. It is hard to teach multiple dogs so start with one ringleader at a time. You put the dog into a sit and get them to wait while you do the 'offending' action, and let them attack or bark on cue when you are finished. I started with sweeping and it took a while to build up to a full sweep, I did 'wait' one sweep then 'okay' to let them bark at it and built up my sweeps. Once they learnt with a broom they worked it out pretty quickly with other appliances, and now sometimes they dont even bother barking after waiting. One big problem with multiples is when one dog breaks the wait its hard to stop the other breaking too. No need for food rewards as the reward is getting to bark.
• working out the times of day they bark. Dogs are very routinised so its worth checking if there are certain times of the day they are worse. Eg, mine get very barky at around 4-5pm so that's when I have to make sure they have something to do (usually we go to the local oval). Even if its giving them a kong or food puzzle it helps redirecting them at that time.

I wouldn't use a can with coins if your dogs like barking at noisy things as its just another noise to bark at. I also dont recommend using a spray bottle as a trainer I know did and now she can't use a spray bottle when she grooms. Don't treat for stopping barking - smart dogs work out pretty quick they need to bark first to be quiet (mine certainly did as well as a lot of other dogs I know) The 'quiet' command is handy but it doesnt seem to prevent chronic barkers. My dogs are exercised about 3-5 hours a day and they still bark. I know a lot of dogs bark out of boredom but mine do it because its fun.

Good luck, I can fully sympathise with how stressed this must be making you.

Sorry about the long post.