Can a performance dog also be a good "pet"?

we were just talking about something similar at practice tonight.....
our main instructor preaches all training is a game- so obedience sits are a game, agility jumps are a game, chasing the toy down the hall is a game. and then 2 or 3 shelties chill on the couch with me to watch tv- need a bigger couch to get all four on it if I also want to sit on it:winkgrin:
They are all crate trained so when we travel, they can be comfortable in their crates......
 
Silaria said:
When it's time to work , Shelties are very good at understanding when it's time to work.
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As an example, Spirit will NOT go potty when she is wearing her agility leash. I never taught her that, but she immediately understood that wearing her special agility leash meant "game on". I have to change her back to her regular leash to get her to potty.
 
2GoodDogs said:
Is that what you were talking about, the 98%of the day you are not formally training?
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Yes, exactly. Thank you. (And only 2% toward training? That answers another question for me.)

I really didn't mean to start a discussion about training techniques. (Though I have been reading quite a bit on the "all positive" vs. "corrections" methods, clicker training, training with food, markers, etc. I probably WILL start a discussion on this one of these days! :) ) I probably shouldn't have emphasized using a crate so much in my original post.

My question was meant to be about a dog's personality and temperament. If a dog is inclined toward performance or conformation (and that's intentionally identified in the puppies), and then raised to that end, does that preclude being what I'd call a "normal" house pet? And what happens if the daily obedience training time is put on hold for a month or two---does the dog struggle with NOT being put through exercises? Does he get restless or start to act out? Or does he lose some of his sharpness in obedience?

So while I'm hoping to get into obedience with my next Sheltie, I also want to be sure I'll still have just a "regular" dog to hang out with too. From what everyone is saying here, it sounds like I don't need to be concerned.

Now, if I could just find a breeder....
 
I do know a few people who use this technique you mention. The technique ends up creating a dog that you wouldn't want out in public. The dog is not socialised properly, so you have a self-fulfilling prophecy, all you can do with the dog is train and compete, because the dog can't be trusted amongst people and other dogs. You'll see these dogs at obedience trials - they're the ones that everyone is asked not to walk past, that need a clear path to get to the ring and around the ring in case it gets loose and attacks another dog. I honestly think it's ridiculous, plenty of dogs get titled who aren't human created problems. The ideas are loosely based on dated training theories, some of which were once used in things like Schutzhund and law enforcement. To a lesser extent environments are controlled for working dogs, assistance dogs for example, but socialisation and exposure are also critical elements of that training.

Your obedience dog should be a companion, that's the true purpose of obedience in the first place. So really an obedience dog should have no problem being a normal pet, even if you don't end up competing. Are performance dogs different - sometimes but not always; and I think it applies more to the high energy sports. My female I specifically picked for being 'high drive'. She won the National flyball title and always placed against border collies in agility. The big difference between her and my other dog, well not a lot. She needs more exercise, she wants to chase things (kangaroos and bunnies), and she's created a job for herself (guarding the yard from marauding cats). But other than needing to expend more energy she is no different to any other companion dog. She snuggles on the couch, sleeps on my bed and does therapy work, cuddling mental health patients. Actually a lot of the other dogs that pass through the Delta therapy dog accreditation are obedience and flyball dogs, that's because they want dogs that are well-mannered and obedient in addition to being socialised, easy-going, and loving people.
 
Wow, that reminds me of the old days when hunting dogs stayed in the pen unless they were out hunting.
 
Honestly, I wouldn't WANT a puppy from a breeder who keeps her dogs completely isolated from the household. All three of my Shelties, from two different breeders, where loved, socialized and treated like pets from day one. My older two, Edan and CJ, were confirmation prospects and lived in the house with their breeder as loved pets. My 20 month old, who was sold as a performance dog, also lived with his breeder and was well loved, handled, and socialized as a pup.

I know a number of local confirmation breeders and NONE of them keep their dogs locked in a crate or in a segregated kennel all the time. They live in the house as pets. All the dogs are extremely well tempered and confident dogs. This leads to confidence in the show and performance rings.

I'm sure there are people and breeders out there who do as you describe. I can assure you, your obedience dog DOES NOT need to be isolated from you. You can teach them the difference between "working time" and "play time". When at classes with my 20 month old and he started to loose focus I'd, gently, calmly, and softly, tell him "it's time to work, we'll play later". We'd work on whatever exercise we were doing, which usually only took another minute or two, then played for a few minutes. (He was a puppy after all.) It did help teach him there was a time for work and play as young as 6 months old.
 
I think it is wise to talk a lot about training methods, we all learn something, even if it is about what we don't want!

It would be very interesting to talk to the breeders about what they use as criteria when labeling puppies as pet home or performance! I would put that on my list of questions for the breeder, if I'm ever in the market again. Along with why and what results they expect from using That sire and That dam. My breeder uses the puppies temperaments and drives to help classify them for what they would be most successful at. She hit two home runs with me. :)

Puppies who don't have the high energy levels, curiosity, attraction to food and people are not going to be the best for performance. A puppy born to snuggle, play independently, does not chase after a tossed bit of crumpled paper... that puppy is going to be someone's Best In Home :)

I love that you are questioning and willing, you are going to be one awesome performance puppy owner and trainer!
 
The other thing I wanted to mention is that while there are some people who hold the philosophy you originally mentioned (sole purpose is to work), there are people who raise their dogs as members of the family who are JUST AS COMPETITIVE in their respective sport. In fact, there is a breeder that I have the utmost respect that is an obedience/conformation breeder. Her dogs are bred and raised to be OTCH dogs. But you will never find a more loving home, and a more perfect start in this world than the one she provides her puppies.

If you don't have to isolate your dog to be competitive, why would you?
 
Good working dogs have "off" switches. Working Border Collies work, then come home and lay on your sofa. They shouldn't be itchy to work 100% of the time. They do need mental stimulation, and can get edgy without it (I see this in my own working Sheltie), but not anything five minutes of A-Frame time in the yard can't fix. In Shelties, we do have some people that breed drive to the point of OCD in the dogs (mostly for agility).
 
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