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Can I tell if Sansa is Bi-factored?

Discussion in 'Sheltie Colors' started by Matsuki, Sep 12, 2017.

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  1. Matsuki

    Matsuki Forums Enthusiast

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    Any way to tell if she's bi-factored or is it something that you just need to see what she produces?


    She's a blue merle, likely white-factored. The two siblings I saw were another blue merle and a tri.

    Her father is a blue merle, from a white sable and blue merl

    Mother a tri from two white sables.
     
    Matsuki, Sep 12, 2017
    Matsuki, Sep 12, 2017
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  2. Calliesmom

    Calliesmom Moderator

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    you can't tell by looking at her but unlikely that she would be bi factored from two tri parents and sable grandparents though bi is recessive and won't show unless the dog gets two bi genes. it's possible that it could have come down from farther back but without any recent bi dogs in the pedigree, it's pretty unlikely.
    you would have to mate her to a biblack for any chance of bicolor puppies......
     
    Calliesmom, Sep 12, 2017
    Calliesmom, Sep 12, 2017
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  3. Calliesmom

    Calliesmom Moderator

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    so if the mother is a tri from two sables- then she only has tri because she got one tri gene from each parent. if she got one tri gene and one sable gene, she'd be sable.
    I would say the same will go for the father, one tri gene from the sable and one tri gene from the blue merle (Tri merle) except that there could maybe have been a bi gene in the blue that would be masked by the tri gene from the sable. if the blue only has tri in its parents then it's not possible for Sansa to have the bi gene.
     
    Calliesmom, Sep 12, 2017
    Calliesmom, Sep 12, 2017
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  4. Matsuki

    Matsuki Forums Enthusiast

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    Thanks for the quick responses! I was hoping to mate her to my friend's white factored tri (I sooo want a CHW) but they seem to be having some family issues at the moment and I was looking at my options and came up with a local bi-black. I love the look of bi-blues but isn't that only possible if Sansa is bi-factored? Or is it possible for the bi-black to produce a pup that's bi-bi regardless?

    I understand that bi is recessive so if she's a tri-bi it wouldn't be expressed. Am I wrong in thinking it's possible that even a tri from two sables could be bi-tri? ...as in one of the parents was sable-tri, the other sable-bi, resulting in tri-bi pup that would look tri? (or is that just highly unlikely?) ...the pedigree I have goes back several generations past the local Japanese mating's but not all have their colors listed and it gets quite crazy as there are dogs from the US, Canada, Brazil in the mix with varying degrees of info.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
    Matsuki, Sep 12, 2017
    Matsuki, Sep 12, 2017
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  5. Calliesmom

    Calliesmom Moderator

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    yes- one of the sables could have been sable-bi but if there's no bi in that sable lineage then not likely.

    yes- you will only get bi dogs if both parents have a bi gene. the biblack can't do it all by itself - though all the puppies would be bifactored.

    if you have the pedigree, then go here and see if the dogs/colors are listed..
    even then, that will only give you a hint that the bi gene might be there- or not......
     
    Calliesmom, Sep 12, 2017
    Calliesmom, Sep 12, 2017
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  6. Matsuki

    Matsuki Forums Enthusiast

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    Thanks again for the response!　I totally forgot about that site! Thanks for the link!

    Found quite a few of her US/CAN/BRAZILLIAN ancestors on there and even some Japanese ones but none that are bi or have any bi offspring on the DAM side. Very unlikely a bi gene came down that way. The SIRE side I have about 3.5 generations back but no info on the site....I guess it's possible but I think you're probably right in that it's unlikely she's bi-factored.
     
    Matsuki, Sep 13, 2017
    Matsuki, Sep 13, 2017
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  7. Calliesmom

    Calliesmom Moderator

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    glad to help- I love pedigrees:yes:
    I have two bis- one biblack whose Dad was a bifactored tri and whose Mom was a biblack and a biblue whose Dad was a biblue and whose Mom was a biblack
     
    Calliesmom, Sep 13, 2017
    Calliesmom, Sep 13, 2017
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  8. Cara Sandler

    Cara Sandler Forums Enthusiast

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    My 3 year old sheltie is a CHW, and I think she's incredibly striking!
     
    Cara Sandler, Sep 13, 2017
    Cara Sandler, Sep 13, 2017
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  9. Matsuki

    Matsuki Forums Enthusiast

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    I saw your album, they're beautiful!! I decided not to try my luck this time since the bi-black stud that was available was almost all black and while it might have made for some cute tri's, I think the likely merles from of it could have been downright cryptic. (But the experience made me look again at the bi blues! ahhhh soo amazing)
     
    Matsuki, Sep 21, 2017
    Matsuki, Sep 21, 2017
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  10. Matsuki

    Matsuki Forums Enthusiast

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    Let's see some pics! :love:
     
    Matsuki, Sep 21, 2017
    Matsuki, Sep 21, 2017
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    Cara Sandler likes this.
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