collar question

ruckusluvr

Forums Enthusiast
How common is it for a sheltie to slip a correctly fitted collar? Do you use a choke chain, slip collar, martingale, harness, or just a normal buckle collar. Ruckus wears his martingale collar because I just feel safer, and it gives me more control on our walks.

I am getting my puppy next week and I am not sure what sort of collar or harness I should bring with me. I would feel bad using a choke, or a martingale with a puppy. I have a slip lead but I hate using them. I have actually had a dog back out of a cheap nylon slip lead while it was relaxed and now I am a bit scared of them
 
I have always used the collars that click together, not buckle like a belt. I have never had a problem with them. I don't like choke chains because I don't like the chain I think it's heavy on their neck. The buckle collar would take time to remove if for some reason they would get caught on the fence ect. where as the snap collar can be easily released should a problem arrise.:winkgrin: But that's because I'm a little paranoid , I always try to think beforehand what might /could happen.:uhoh: I think you will choose the right one for your likes and dislikes. Go with your gut feeling.:yes:
 
I use choke chains and martingales (also called no-slip collars) and I've never had a sheltie slip a collar.
 
Ruckus actually has slipped his collar before. Its because he is a complete fruit cake and many things freak him out. And when he freaks out while on a leash he backs up, jumps, and twist to try to get out of his collar.

Thanks guys, I will probably keep using a martingale. I just wasnt sure if it was actually safe to do with a puppy or not.
 
I've always used a regular buckle or snap collar. Gio has a nylon snap and Romeo has a rolled leather buckle.

When I first got Romeo he was quite shy and a little skittish. Until I was able to work with him on his confidence and bond with me, I used a harness and a collar. I don't like walking a dog on a harness as I feel it is basically training the dog to pull on the lead, so instead I fit the harness comfortably, clip the leash to the collar, but thread the handle of the leash underneath one of the straps of the harness. That ensures that the dog cannot slip the collar, but they still get used to the sensation of having the leash attached to the collar and not the harness. After I am confident with the dog and that they will not bolt even if they do slip the collar, then I ditch the harness and just use the flat collar.

Gio's collar will easily slip over his head, it's very loose, only used to hold his medic-alert tags. But he's basically bombproof so wouldn't go anywhere even if startled. Romeo's collar fits a bit snugger, but only because of all that damn hair! :lol: I work first and foremost on the dog's confidence and the bond with me. So that if they slip their collar out of fear, their first instinct is to come to me instead of bolt into potential danger. And if they slip the collar out of excitement, again I have good control over them because I've worked on instilling that I am always more exciting than anything else they might come up against.

I'd never use a choke chain on a dog, Sheltie or otherwise. Martingales aren't bad, I've just never found a need for them. In an unreliable dog I might consider it, but I'd rather work on reliability than put my trust in a strip of cloth! :lol:
 
sounds like you could teach me a thing or two about helping Ruckus not be such a fruit cake! He is better than ever, but I know for a fact that he would bolt and run away. I doubt I would ever see him again if he got startled and got out of his collar. His dog has even backed out of a snug fitting harness. he just pulled it off like a t-shirt. Luckily that happened at petco and the doors where shut! Id love to learn how to boost his confidence! I do agility with him and that is what has helped him the most.
 
Agility is a great confidence booster! So keep that up for sure!

The other way that I boost confidence in the dog is to change the way I behave around the dog. A dog will naturally look for a leader to follow, someone that is take-charge and knows what they are doing. If the dog has found a leader like that, then they will naturally shadow that leader. And if something is disturbing, will look to the leader to determine whether or not they should be scared, defensive, excited, etc.

Essentially, to make your dog bombproof, you have to make yourself bombproof. Be aware of your surroundings, don't react to loud noises or exciting situations, be confident in everything that you do, DO with a purpose. Not only is this a great exercise for your dog, but it is a great exercise of yourself in exploring your own self-confidence. Even if you have low self-confidence, fake it. Behave in the manner that you want your dog to behave. The vast majority of scared or skittish dogs don't have a solid confident leader to follow. They may respect and love the owner, be their best friend, but they don't believe that the owner can take on anything. They may think you are super, but they don't believe that you are Superman. If they see the owner (whom they love and admire) react negatively in a situation (negative being fear, discomfort, anxiety, nervousness) they will think "Well damn! My owner is freaking out at this, so it must be something horrible and dreadful. I better freak out, too." But if the owner is confident and solid, the dog will look to that, think "Well, owner isn't freaking out. Must not be a big deal!"

I like to play "trust games" as well. Get a chair or stool and set it next to the bed or couch. The chair/stool and bed/couch should be about the same height. You sit on the chair and have the dog on the bed. Stretch your legs out and rest them on the bed so that the backs of your knees are at the edge of the bed, there will only be a couple of inches separating the chair and the couch. Get a toy or treat and encourage the dog to walk across your legs and into your lap. (Builds great balance, too. Especially if you have "squishy" legs like I do! :lol: ) Once they reach your lap, YAY big praises and cuddles and kisses. Back to the bed and do it again. Once they are comfortable with that distance, back the chair up a bit so that the back of your calves are at the edge of the bed, encourage the dog to walk across your legs again. Build on this until you can sit with just your heels on the bed and the dog will walk across your legs. Be sure to hold your arms out either side and your legs close together to prevent the dog from falling. Once you have mastered that, push the chair back a bit further, sit with your feet on the floor and encourage the dog to jump from bed to lap. Always ending with lots of praise and play games.

Get out your clicker and teach a "touch". Start with a neutral object, coffee table or something similar. Teach the dog to touch the coffee table with their nose or paw, click and treat when they do. Then ask the dog to touch the couch, the fridge, the chair, the garbage can, etc. etc. Have them associate "touch" with anything that you point at. High energy, lots of praise. Then if you ever run into something that the dog is afraid or nervous of, ask them to touch something neutral, then ask them to touch the item they are scared of. Because they now associate the touch game with treats and play time, that will often overcome the fear of the new item.

Or if your dog is very play driven, play with the item they are scared of. For example, when I brought Romeo home he was very scared of flapping garbage bags. I found this out the first time I snapped an empty garbage bag in the air to open it up and put in the bin. So immediately begin playing with the garbage bag. You don't need to engage the dog in the play right off the bat, but leave an open invitation for them to join you. Get on the floor and crumple up the bag, bat it around with your hands. Run up and down the hallway making excited play noises and flapping the bag. Encourage the dog to chase you. Once they are chasing, offer them the bag to play with, exciting wrestle play, fun fun fun. Then tell them they are very good and super smart, and continue with your normal business. Anything can be a temporary toy.

Another key point (I know this is going forever, but just these little things make a huge difference) is to always ensure that the dog enjoys being with you. Never call your dog to you in order to scold them or do something they don't like (like trimming nails or getting a bath). If you call your dog to you, it should always mean good things, whether that be treats, play, cuddles, kisses, toys, games, training, etc. When you do need to do the unpleasant things like nail trims or baths, walk to your dog to get them. Don't ask them to come to you.

I think that is all that I can think of at the moment. Implimenting these changes and using them on a daily basis (don't slip back into bad habits!) will work very well and often very quickly with your average dog. "Special case" dogs may take a bit longer and some more patience. But your "average" pup or dog will come around very quickly. I got Romeo when he was 9 months old. He was very hand shy, nervous around new people or dogs, slight noise phobia and startled by odd things like garbage bags. By the time he was 10.5 months old, he was 100% trustworthy off leash, and regularly training in flyball (lots of noise, running dogs, new people, barking, screaming, etc.), tested herding instinct with sheep at 10.5 months, etc. The change can be very quick and very dramatic. :biggrin2:
 
Whoa thanks for the info! Great ideas. I admire how you turned Romeo around. About dogs looking for leaders.... I completley see that! I have been reading and watching Cesar Milan the dog whisperer and trying my best to follow most everything he says. And I can see improvement in a lot of Ruckus problem areas.
If you recall we mainly started Cesar's way because of Ruckus aggression to people and cars. (in his neighbor hood only he is aggressive)
Ruckus is doing a ton better with that. Its not his neighbor hood to protect any more... its MINE!
 
I don't agree with Cesars form of leadership, so I don't want people to mistakenly believe that I condone anything that Cesar does or any of his methods.

Cesar relies on force and intimidation to demand leadership. If you observe dogs interacting with each other, the leader rarely ever uses force or requires submission. For instance, the flyball team I belong to is about 20 dogs strong. The "leader" of that pack of dogs is an 11 year old female Miniature Pinscher that can't weigh much more than 5lb. She has absolute and utter control and influence over every dog on the team, ranging in sized from 5lb to 100+lb and breeds from Miniature Poodles to Mastiff crosses and Doberman Pinschers. She does not bare her teeth, she only uses force when confronted and as an absolute last resort. Rather she uses a calm, confident influence and precise body language to ask that the rest of the dogs behave in a certain manner. And they do, no questions ask and without so much as a strategic glance of the eye. No threats, no intimidation, no alpha rolls, fake bites, scruff grabs, growls, or bared teeth. Just confidence and setting a good example.

When observing a dog pack, either within a home, a team, etc., the leader is the confident quiet one. The ones that use force and intimidation are often much lower on the totem pole and they only get away with those tactics when the leader is not around. So by using force and intimidation to try and convince your dog that they should look up to you, you are actually portraying to them that you are NOT the leader, rather you are the bully of the pack that, when the leader is around, will likely slink off into the corner with their tail between their legs.

I just wanted to make the clarification between what Cesar preaches and what I encourage. Cesar passes on the "leadership techniques" that can make him money and fit well with a marketing gimmick. I pass on the "leadership techniques" modeled after how dogs actually interact with each other and with humans. Both will work initially, but unfortunately Cesar's methods often backfire, or once the initial shock of threat is over, the effects wear off. Cesar's methods do not inspire a dog to be confident themselves, rather they instill a sense of helplessness and foster a lack of trust in the owner. Who would trust someone that might, at any moment, flip you on your back, yank your collar, grab you forcefully, or do that silly "fake bite" thing? Remember the idea that I mentioned on trust games and making sure that whenever your dog comes to you they feel safe and know that that is a happy place? You aren't going to get that if the memory of pins and alpha rolls is still in their mind.

I know I have mentioned this forum before, but I feel that people were too busy getting their feelings hurt to see that I am in this for the dogs well-being, not the humans mental gratification. If you are interested in positive and natural training methods, check out the Rewarding Behaviors website and forum. http://www.rewardingbehaviors.com There is a link at the top that says "Forum". You can read everything as a guest, or you can sign up and participate in the discussions.
 
Wow, GeeRome

Have you ever thought of writing a book! You have such a wealth of ideas, I want to put them all in one place so that I can pull them out when I'm ready for them! What about starting a website?

I too am avoiding the Dog Whisperer. I've never actually seen the show - just a few video clips here and there - but I've heard enough negative to be cautious.

Instead, I'm working through the Power of Positive Dog Training - clicker training. So far, he's being fairly consistent when we're in full training mode. It's when I want him to sit NOW (and I don't happen to have a clicker or a treat handy) that we're having issues.
 
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