Crooked everything! (Fronts, heels, etc...)

corbinam

corbinam

Moderator
I have been trying to work with Lexi on her fronts, heels (which is what I call her getting into heel position in a sit on my left side) and her finishes (which is what I call when she goes behind me to get into heel position from the right side to the left). <----And maybe those are the usual names, I don't know. I'm just making it up as I go along!

Anyways, I feel like EVERYTHING she does is crooked. When I call her now she sort of sits halfway between a front and a heel (like she is predicting what is next?) I can only get her to sit directly in front of me if I lure her in with a treat.

Also, if I don't reward her right away when she comes front, she throws herself into a down, like "that didn't get a treat, let me try something else!" I know I need to fade treats, but I can't get her to sit straight without them.

She also sometimes sits crooked when coming from both the left and right (to my left). She has just learned "finish" (coming from the right) so I was rewarding any attempt to sit at my side, but now I've rewarded the wrong thing because I get all kinds of crappy sits at my side! What do I reward? When do I correct?

I should note that Lexi gets flustered easily. If she doesn't get it right the first couple times, she doesn't want to play anymore. Or, she'll just start offering all kinds of things to try to get it (downs, roll over, etc...)

Help--I'm a novice with no mentor! :confused2:
 
For straight fronts continue to bring her in with a treat. If she's not straight take 2 or 3 steps back until she's right where you want her before she gets her treat. Be sure to make fronts and finishes two different things. Reware for a straight front. Back up and call her to front again. Some of the people in our training group use dowels to create a channel for the dog to guide them into front position. It takes a long time and a lot of repetition to get consistant straight fronts.

To work on finishes: have her sit and then stand directly in front of her and have her finish. Take a step back with your right foot if you are finishing right just to get her going. Bring her to heel position with a treat. It takes a while, before you don't need treats to get the right position.

Be sure to work on these as two separate things so you don't end up getting an automatic finish when you call her to front.

I think the frustration is a "Lexi" thing. My Lexi is the same way....but then so is Pyper...good luck!
 
Riley and I have just started a novice obedience class at our training center and have similar issues.

Once important thing I learned about finishes is that I was luring him into the sit crooked. I have been rewarded him for finding heel position on his own (standing) but I have to lure him into the sit in heel position since he likes to swing to look at me. When I lure him I pull my hand towards my body ever so slightly, which causes him to sit crookedly with his butt sticking out. I have to remember to pull my hand straight up to indicate a sit to get him to sit correctly in heel.

For fronts, I was told to hold a treat with both hands in the center of my body (well....legs) to pull him into a straight, close sit. Our issue with fronts is not only bein a little crooked, but that Riley rock sits and ends up 3 feet away! I have to make him sit almost on top if my feet to get good fronts.

Yeah....our class is really informative....and we just started, while everyone else has been in the class for 1+ years, so they are heeling off leash already and Riley and I look like idiots :rolleyes2:
 
I found this exercise very helpful in straightening out the evil crooked bum (Clancy's, that is...mine is beyond help :lol:). It seemed to help Clancy 'clue in' to what I wanted from him. I use string cheese to 'spit & treat' to keep him looking at my face...otherwise he creeps over to be near by my treating hand.
 
Fergus said:
I found this exercise very helpful in straightening out the evil crooked bum (Clancy's, that is...mine is beyond help :lol:). It seemed to help Clancy 'clue in' to what I wanted from him. I use string cheese to 'spit & treat' to keep him looking at my face...otherwise he creeps over to be near by my treating hand.
Click to expand...

That's a good suggestion! I have a friend who clips a clothes pin to her chest and puts a treat in the back of it. As her dog is coming in she says, "cookie" and he looks straight up into her face and sits perfectly straight. Then she bends over and lets him eat the treat out of the pin. Sounds silly, but they got a 200 on one leg of their CD last year....can't beat that!!
 
I'm working on teaching Edan finsihes and fronts as well. I will get crooked, and sometimes perpendicular sits at left heel after a "finish" (what I call my left finish) and my "around" (what I call my right finish).

Basically, I did what you did while teaching it - rewarded for performing the action regardless of how correct it was. Once the idea of the action was in place, I started to shape the behavior so Edan wouldn't get a treat if he was too crooked (roughly greater than a 45 degree angle from me since I was getting perpendicular sits). I am working on reducing the angle of what is acceptable for getting the treat; and on the times when he gets it spot on he gets a jackpot reward.

Yes, when he doesn't get a treat he goes through just about everything he knows to get the treat. Usually I take a step forward, for the heel, and let him try to sit at my side again. For a front, I take a step back.

I wouldn't fade the treats until she is nearly 85-90% perfect and then I'd still reward but maybe after 3 or 4 good results.
 
In our beginning competition obedience class we used treats and toys to teach 'fun' fronts so that your dog is coming to you with speed and ending up close enough that you can almost touch their nose without bending over. The objective is to have your dog eager and excited to 'come'. Instead of immediately asking for them to come and sit in front, you toss the toy between your legs with the dog diving between your legs for the toy or to the side so that the dog is going behind you. Then, reward for them driving to the toy. We probably do 3 or 4 'fun' fronts for every 'formal' front in the beginning.

For straight sits in the heel position, it's helpful to practice in front of a mirror. If I'm getting a crooked sit from my dog, most of the time it's because I've turned my shoulders ever so slightly. If I'm looking straight ahead, Phebe always ends up in the correct position.
 
Great suggestions !

A platform is also helpful in fine tuning a straight and "square" sit. I've made one from styrofoam and covered it with tape. The surface is a little slick, probably would be better with non-skid something on it; however, it is narrow enough that if Snap does not sit squarely on it, a back paw will fall off. I use it for fronts, but make sure as well to work fronts with no platform. And as suggested here, intersperse the work with lots of play.
 
Thanks everyone!

You've all given me some great suggestions of things to try.

I'll check back in in a week or so to let you know how it's going!
 
Croked is fun. Strate is boring.
luv Koji

Koji, learn to spell. In obedience, you have to be perfect, like me. That's why I do so good in obedience.
Always, Miko

(My boys are strange. Good luck with the obedience training Ashley. I'd love for KOji just to heel a BIT, that'd be nice. Versus trying to avoid him walking back and forth in front of me. Maybe I should turn him into a S&R dog instead.)
 
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