Distance Recommendation?

Would you like to "borrow" my copy? I doubt I'll need it for a LONG while. By the quoted borrow, I mean keep for however long you need it, cuz again, I don't need it.

Let me know. I can send it.
 
3Stars said:
The biggest breakthrough I had was when I learned to experiment in order to understand how my dog followed my body language. Some dogs follow movement, some follow shoulders, some follow hips, others follow hands....it depends on the dog. Starr really follows shoulders - it doesn't matter what any other part of my body does, he goes where my shoulders do. Once I realized this, distance work became much, much easier for both of us - it was like we started speaking the same language all of a sudden. This will also impact how you run regular courses.
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I never even thought about this. As most trainers say they're watching everything (feet, shoulders, arms, etc). How did you figure out Starr was watching your shoulders? PM if you'd rather not take Ashley's post OT.

Koji, like Bentley, seems to learn so differently from "normal" dogs, so I always try to learn about every way of thinking/training. Something eventually works, so I just go with it.
 
We have Bud Houston come every couple of years for a session for our group for a weekend. He does have some great training ideas for distance.

Also, before I moved to southeast Idaho, I lived in northern Idaho and trained with Barb Davis out of Spokane area. I don't know if she has a distance video, but she does have some great training techniques. She also comes and does weekend seminars throughout the country. I go to one in Boise with her still, as I miss training with her!
 
SheltieChe said:
t can be quite confusing for someone who follows system and I mean system in terms of keeping your cues consistent so not to confuse the dog. For example I do not want to have a verbal that overrides everything else even my motion because in LM system motion is the King. Whatever verbals I have have to go in conjunction with proper body motion. But then again I am not planning to have my dog to be Gambler dog number 1 in the country. For my goals of having 15 feet lateral distance, 30 feet send, left, right and go go- means go straight and I am very careful not to abuse word Go in other circumstances- verbals are plenty.
Silaria, book is build for teachers of the class, it has class lessons, set ups, goals etc.
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My club teaches LM's system so I am very well acquainted with her "motion is everything" and "you should always be in front of your dog" approach. Actually, because of motion you can actually have a decent distance dog using LM's system.

I have two command "go on" for forward sends and "go out" for lateral (side) sends. Edan has a near 100% forward send of 25 foot and a near 100% lateral send of 35 foot. I use motion to help support these distances. It is one of the few points on a course I want him in front of me and "push" from behind or from the side. I'll intentionally move away from the gamble line to give myself room to 'charge the line' to push him out or help hold him out.

However, that doesn't help Ashely's immediate need of how to get the dog comfortable working away from you. I had this issue with Edan and it took me nearly a year and a half to be consistently successful for 10 foot distance. After 10 foot the rest came relatively easy (as in less than a year and a half for the next 10 - 15 foot).

It took a lot of patience and a lot of drilling - sends to tunnels, jumps, etc. whenever possible in class whether it was part of the drill or not.

Some dogs simply do not want to work away from their handler. MOST times the handler doesn't trust the dog to 'know their job' and work away from them. (NOT saying this is the case for Ashley, her husband, and Bentley.)

Ashley, the best thing I can suggest to you and your husband is, in addition to whatever training tool you use (book, video, etc.) and practice practice practice as much as you can.
 
I think distance can be used when using Linda's system. So long as you support the distance with motion. Unlike the current fad with certain handlers who seem to believe you MUST accompany your dog to the standard of ever jump, if you actually watch Linda herself run, she isn't always right on her dogs. She can't be. She does utilize some distance with her dogs. I think Bud's is one of the easiest books to pair with Linda's system. I would have to look back through the book, but I believe Linda even makes a comment in the book at the end.
 
Thanks, everyone. You've all given me great food for thought.

Honestly, Bentley's strength will never be distance because he is not really an independent thinking/problem solving dog (based on how he was raised plus our foundation training). As far as gambles go, I'd like to teach him to feel confident in his choices to go on without us. To look back, I can say that we've come a VERY long way (if you check the video I posted, you can see that he has some independence now. About 2 years ago he couldn't do a pinwheel on his own).

I think a lot of the problem is a mental block on our end (my husband and I are both guilty). When the buzzer goes off, it's panic, and we handle very differently. If we just handled it like a regular run (using motion combined with distance) I think we'd be fine. Of course that's not possible on every gamble run (I've seen several that just need verbals), but I think for some of them it is.

And let's be really honest. I just want those 2 Qs!!!! :biggrin2:
 
So it sounds like then in addition to needing to work on distance skills, you need to work on a better strategy when going in to do gamblers runs. If you can average out his YPS, you can get a good idea of how many obstacles he should be able to do prior to the buzzer. It'll make it a little less frantic, and hopefully have you right where you want to be when the buzzer sounds so you can be mentally better prepared to handle the distance portion. You can measure out how many yards one of your strides covers, and can go out and walk the course figuring how many yards he'll cover.
 
In my limited experience I have found no problems teaching distance. It is all about answering question- Where is the value?-
If the value is with sticking with the handler, dog will stick with the handler, if the value is away from the handler, dog will happily be away from the handler. Value can be created either by building highly rewarded behavior i.e. my dog LOVES tunnels so much he will run to it across the football field, or by high value reward coming at distance after the behavior i.e. my dog LOVES chasing his ball so he will chase it across football field.
After seeing Bentley run I agree with Hopeshelties, it is less about skills as such and more about strategies and mental management. Because somehow Bentley did get to the point of needing only 2 Q... which can also be a mental problem in itself- once you start concentrating on outcome as a goal your performance usually goes down the drain:confused2:
Not to say that Bentley does not need to be brushed up on sturdier directionals etc
I have submitted my first homework in foundation class with ST and have received most profound answer- for me- which I think just paid for entire course :smile2: Have to quote
¨Don’t forget to actually call on call to hand!!! :) You don’t want him to stick with you when not specifically told to -- you want him to drive forward hard when not told to stay in handler focus, so not calling him is actually counter-productive!¨
My default behavior with Leo IS ¨stick with me unless you told to go forward/away¨, unintentional as it is. I think it got created partly because as small dog he is much likely to stick with handler and because with Che I do have ¨drive forward hard and take what you see in your path unless told to stay in handler focus¨and I have had problems with handler focus quite a bit until I got into Daisy classes which mostly fixed our ¨please don´t run into next county¨plea:biggrin2:
 
I was thinking....

Do you think it'd be better if only one of you handled Bentley for now? Or trained him? Otherwise, be sure you two are on the same page as handling/cues, etc. Just a thought since you were saying distance isn't Bentley's strong point. Maybe start with one trainer then as he starts becoming more consistent, the other person can start to handle them, that way if they a bit "off" it won't matter as much.

Good luck! Can't wait to see his progression. I remember when sending him to the tunnel 5-10 feet away was accomplishment.
 
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