ETS Update

[HopeShelties]

With the cause of ets in this line, they now have a test available, so technically all wouldn't need to discontinue being used as a dog that is clear can not pass it on. It would take a carrier or affected to pass it on. I was always curious about Rebound given he is a full littermate to flutter who is a carrier... Especially since most of his breedings were done before the testing was available.
I have a rebound grandson and have tested him to make sure he isn't a carrier because his mom (a rebound kid) wasn't tested (most breeders do not yet test for this eye test in shelties in the us) and I wasn't sure if rebound was clear so wanted to be certain.
Of course, this particular condition isn't the only cause of ets. It is only that I do know about the issue in this line that is causing the ets.

 

[danisgoat]

With the cause of ets in this line, they now have a test available, so technically all wouldn't need to discontinue being used as a dog that is clear can not pass it on. It would take a carrier or affected to pass it on. I was always curious about Rebound given he is a full littermate to flutter who is a carrier... Especially since most of his breedings were done before the testing was available.

What is this test called? I didn't know that such a test existed.

 

[HopeShelties]

Its a test for cea which is collie eye anomaly. It is the problem in this particular line and by extension tammy van deussens faerie shelties as well. This isn't just gossip. Test results for the ones of tammys that have been tested are posted to offas website.
Not all... probably not most ets dogs are cea dogs. It is just one of many possible eye problems which can cause ets.
For cea, a dog must be a carrier to produce other carriers. It takes two to produce affecteds.

 

[danisgoat]

Its a test for cea which is collie eye anomaly. It is the problem in this particular line and by extension tammy van deussens faerie shelties as well. This isn't just gossip. Test results for the ones of tammys that have been tested are posted to offas website.
Not all... probably not most ets dogs are cea dogs. It is just one of many possible eye problems which can cause ets.
For cea, a dog must be a carrier to produce other carriers. It takes two to produce affecteds.

That is interesting.

So CEA is one of the causes for ETS, but not all ETS dogs have CEA? Basically, ETS is caused by different types of eye problems.

I know my dog's parents were tested for PRA, but I am not sure about CEA. I will have to go back through my records.

 

[Justicemom]

That is interesting.

So CEA is one of the causes for ETS, but not all ETS dogs have CEA? Basically, ETS is caused by different types of eye problems.

I know my dog's parents were tested for PRA, but I am not sure about CEA. I will have to go back through my records.

SHelties can be CERF and have the genetic test for CEA. Cerf is an opthalmologist looking at the physical structure of the eye and seeing if there are any abnormalites present. It is a phenotype genetic test. Things can be missed or not apparent on CERF and PRA developes later so unless unless the CERF is kept up as the dog ages we may not be getting the whole picture. Blues can be difficult to CERF because their retina doesn't always look normal because of the merling. SO you need an experience eye vet.

CEA is a genetic test it looks at the genes. Not many shelties breeders do the CEA test and opt only to do CERF. CEA testing is expensive as well in comparsion. I don't do CEA but I do CERF. However, in light of this conversation it is something I may revisit.

 

[ClantyreSheltie]

I have a CEA affected Collie who jumps fine. So it may be a contributor, but not necessarily a cause.

 

[danisgoat]

SHelties can be CERF and have the genetic test for CEA. Cerf is an opthalmologist looking at the physical structure of the eye and seeing if there are any abnormalites present. It is a phenotype genetic test. Things can be missed or not apparent on CERF and PRA developes later so unless unless the CERF is kept up as the dog ages we may not be getting the whole picture. Blues can be difficult to CERF because their retina doesn't always look normal because of the merling. SO you need an experience eye vet.

CEA is a genetic test it looks at the genes. Not many shelties breeders do the CEA test and opt only to do CERF. CEA testing is expensive as well in comparsion. I don't do CEA but I do CERF. However, in light of this conversation it is something I may revisit.

Thanks for this description. I appreciate your input, as always.

I have a CEA affected Collie who jumps fine. So it may be a contributor, but not necessarily a cause.

This is definitely an interesting topic for me, and hopefully there will be some more research on this topic in the near future so that ETS can be more pinpointed as to what the causes actually are. I wonder if this is something that is being researched at vet schools, like UPENN? This seems like it would be a hot topic, as performance dogs are becoming more and more popular over time.

 

[agiletaz]

Well since a dog that I have used a good deal in breeding has now been named on this thread, I feel I need to join in..... Linda Mecklenburg worked a good deal with my with my Sheltie Seven who displays ETS. She does NOT have CEA. She also has a normal retinoscopy. She is not a Rebound baby. Rebound is CEA clear. He was tested as soon as I found out his sister Flutter (who jumps normally by the way) was a carrier at the recommendation of Flutter's owner. So...he is clear for those who are wondering. Before I realized that ETS was heritable I actually used Rebound with Seven's sister twice despite the fact that Seven had a jumping problem. I believed *I* had caused her problem with training. I produced 2 litters from this breeding with a total of 8 puppies. At least 5 of them have signs of ETS. Some are worse than others, two pups seem to be normal, and one we are unsure about. We have since done a little jump training and just observing of their mother....and believe she has signs of ETS. So....I took a step back and spayed my normal jumping bitch out of that breeding because she had 5 affected siblings. This bitch did NOT have CEA, and none of the puppies do either.

Rebound has been bred to 4 other unrelated bitches, most of them more than once and has not produced any signs of ETS in any of them. To say that because his *sister* is a carrier of CEA "that" is where the jumping problem is coming from in this "line" is a faulty conclusion....because the common factor to Flutter....Rebound.....is clear....and none of the affected dogs have CEA, and we in fact believe the problem did not come from Rebound.

I think it is VERY important that breeders not bury their heads in the sand. I have been open and honest about the problem when I produced it. I have discontinued breeding in the direction where I feel the problem was introduced. I even spayed my young bitch who was unaffected despite the fact that she is a pretty good picture of everything I was breeding for....just because of her affected siblings.

The "classic" ETS dogs do NOT have eye lesions. CEA dogs do have lesions. Can CEA cause the signs of the syndrome ETS....probably....but that is not the case in this "line".....

 

[agiletaz]

I think that Rebound is clear--though I am getting all this information second hand, so I can't swear by it.

Here are some of the original videos for more info:

http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=603

I think the first sheltie is a Taylormade dog, and the second is Himark (Jeep)

We do not think the jumping issue came from Rebound.

Indeed....the first Sheltie on those videos was my dog "Seven"....but she is not a dog I bred. She is a dog I purchased. I then got her sister to breed to Rebound, and that is when I introduced it into my line. So I stopped using all of those dogs. I have not stopped breeding Rebound as he is from a family of *very* talented jumpers with no signs of ETS in addition to being a talented jumper himself. He is a sibling to Taz, Marvel and Joni....all nice jumpers and former AKC/USA team members....as well as many other very talented jumpers who have accomplished a great deal in agility.

Wow....I'm sounding a bit defensive here and don't mean to....but some of the things being said about my dogs were inaccurate.

I am happy to answer questions.....Having experienced ETS twice in top performance prospects, I can say I want to do ALL we can do to eliminate it from our breed. Even if that meant I *did* need to stop using Rebound. However, at this time I do not believe that is the case.

 

[k9kreationz]

I think it is VERY important that breeders not bury their heads in the sand. I have been open and honest about the problem when I produced it. I have discontinued breeding in the direction where I feel the problem was introduced. I even spayed my young bitch who was unaffected despite the fact that she is a pretty good picture of everything I was breeding for....just because of her affected siblings.

I'm not a breeder and not even that heavily into agility. But I just wanted to say thank you for coming out and posting about your dogs. I also admire you for making that hard decision to fix all the dogs involved, when you could have easily turned a blind eye and kept producing nice dog, ETS or not. That to me, says so much more about a person and their breeding program than a dog that has won tons of titles.