fighting
- Thread starter bobby
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Caro
Moderator
Is there a reason you are keeping them entire? This is a common problem with entire males, or if you have one entire and one desexed.
You male Collie is also going through adolescence which is a difficult time even without hormones to contend with. I would definately consider desexing one or both of your dogs.
With the Collie try the Nothing in Life is Free (NILIF) program, this will add routine, structure, guidance, and leadership, which is great for adolescent dogs. You can do a search on the forum or the internet for more info about NILIF. Here is an excerpt from Dr Ian Dunbar about the program.
NILIF operates on the basic principle that before a dog is granted anything that he wants in life - treats, petting, to go outside, to come inside, etc. - he must first do something for his human, like perform a sit/stay...Dogs do what works. If a particular behavior in a particular situation tends to result in Good Things For Dogs, then the dog will probably stick to that behavior. If it doesn’t, the dog will probably abandon the behavior. Set up your dog’s life so that good behavior consistently pays off for the dog and bad behavior does not, and you should have a delightfully obedient and well-mannered pet. Your dog learns that the best way to get what he wants is to look at you and offer the canine version of saying please. It’s a simple principle, but not necessarily an easy one to implement. One word in my little aphorism accounts for a lot of the difficulties people have in training: consistency.
I am not a fan of allowing dogs to duke it out for alpha positions. If you do not like a behaviour then it should be stopped. You, after all, are the leader and they need to behave according to your rules.
I would also seperate your two dogs. Only leave them together under supervision and make sure your Collie is calm when he is around your Sheltie. For example, you can try teaching them both 'on your mat (or bed)' and get them to lay down initially when they are in the room together so they start from a calmer position. But keep their mats at other ends of the room so they cannot eyeball each other. While this is going on I would not even think of letting them close to each other, they are not going to play so its really not worth encouraging the behaviour by giving it the opportunity to occur. I would also feed them seperately and not have any high value resources around for them to fight over - food, treats, toys for example. I would not bother trying to treat them for being calm around each other as I think introducing treats into the mix will just make matters worse.
Your Collie will probably pass through adolescence around 18mths to 2 yrs and things may calm down then. They may never like each other, what you are aiming for at this stage is to get them to tolerate each other. Adolescence is trying for dogs and owners so good luck.
You male Collie is also going through adolescence which is a difficult time even without hormones to contend with. I would definately consider desexing one or both of your dogs.
With the Collie try the Nothing in Life is Free (NILIF) program, this will add routine, structure, guidance, and leadership, which is great for adolescent dogs. You can do a search on the forum or the internet for more info about NILIF. Here is an excerpt from Dr Ian Dunbar about the program.
NILIF operates on the basic principle that before a dog is granted anything that he wants in life - treats, petting, to go outside, to come inside, etc. - he must first do something for his human, like perform a sit/stay...Dogs do what works. If a particular behavior in a particular situation tends to result in Good Things For Dogs, then the dog will probably stick to that behavior. If it doesn’t, the dog will probably abandon the behavior. Set up your dog’s life so that good behavior consistently pays off for the dog and bad behavior does not, and you should have a delightfully obedient and well-mannered pet. Your dog learns that the best way to get what he wants is to look at you and offer the canine version of saying please. It’s a simple principle, but not necessarily an easy one to implement. One word in my little aphorism accounts for a lot of the difficulties people have in training: consistency.
I am not a fan of allowing dogs to duke it out for alpha positions. If you do not like a behaviour then it should be stopped. You, after all, are the leader and they need to behave according to your rules.
I would also seperate your two dogs. Only leave them together under supervision and make sure your Collie is calm when he is around your Sheltie. For example, you can try teaching them both 'on your mat (or bed)' and get them to lay down initially when they are in the room together so they start from a calmer position. But keep their mats at other ends of the room so they cannot eyeball each other. While this is going on I would not even think of letting them close to each other, they are not going to play so its really not worth encouraging the behaviour by giving it the opportunity to occur. I would also feed them seperately and not have any high value resources around for them to fight over - food, treats, toys for example. I would not bother trying to treat them for being calm around each other as I think introducing treats into the mix will just make matters worse.
Your Collie will probably pass through adolescence around 18mths to 2 yrs and things may calm down then. They may never like each other, what you are aiming for at this stage is to get them to tolerate each other. Adolescence is trying for dogs and owners so good luck.
labgirl
Forums Sage
Is there a noticeable trigger? A food or toy item being present? Or a certain room the collie is protective over? Or is it even you he is 'protecting'?
How long has this problem existed and what was their earlier interaction like? ie, did the sheltie snap at collie as a pup? Or did the collie play very rough?
How does the collie behave around other dogs?
Yes, hormones can be a factor and definitely something to consider, and I also agree with what Caro said about not letting the dogs fight it out for alpha positions.
Lastly, what exactly happens? Is it a growl and snap? Physical contact? Or full-blown pinning and shaking?
I would supervise all interactions and should the collie attack, I would tell him off in no uncertain terms and then remove him from the room, for instance into a kitchen behind a stairgate while the sheltie remains free - so there is a consequence for the behaviour, losing your attention. I would not allow arguments over food/toys, or any stealing or bullying. In short, I would make it clear that I want to live in harmony and no teenage collie with 'attitude' is going to mess that up
How long has this problem existed and what was their earlier interaction like? ie, did the sheltie snap at collie as a pup? Or did the collie play very rough?
How does the collie behave around other dogs?
Yes, hormones can be a factor and definitely something to consider, and I also agree with what Caro said about not letting the dogs fight it out for alpha positions.
Lastly, what exactly happens? Is it a growl and snap? Physical contact? Or full-blown pinning and shaking?
I would supervise all interactions and should the collie attack, I would tell him off in no uncertain terms and then remove him from the room, for instance into a kitchen behind a stairgate while the sheltie remains free - so there is a consequence for the behaviour, losing your attention. I would not allow arguments over food/toys, or any stealing or bullying. In short, I would make it clear that I want to live in harmony and no teenage collie with 'attitude' is going to mess that up
Justicemom
Forums Celebrity
I would also look at how the sheltie is looking at the collie. A look can be a challenge.
My friend has a 7yr sheltie Pike (at the time entire) who has gotten into many many fights over the years with many different dogs mostly my boy Justice(9 months older) and her boy 2yr Grizz(both entire males). All Pike ever did was look at them or bump them. But it was how he was looking at them or bumped them. It was very deliberated and challenging. He would pester them until they beat him up. Pike got neutered last April and my friend started watching Pike for those looks and redirected him and the fights between the other 2 boys stopped completely. It was all Pike. He started everything.
BTW Grizz gets along with every other dog in the universe just fine. Justice gets along with other dogs as well. However, if a girl is in heat, all bets are off. Boys are not together then. Everyone will fight-Justice ,Grizz and Jamie even Porter and Pike were getting looks last time. Not pretty. Any chance there is a in season girl in the area?
I would definitely go with NILIF with both dogs. Don't leave them alone together and treat them just like Caro suggested. Unless these are show dogs/breeding dogs , I would get both of them neutered ASAP. It may not solve your issue but it will take the wind out of their sails.
My friend has a 7yr sheltie Pike (at the time entire) who has gotten into many many fights over the years with many different dogs mostly my boy Justice(9 months older) and her boy 2yr Grizz(both entire males). All Pike ever did was look at them or bump them. But it was how he was looking at them or bumped them. It was very deliberated and challenging. He would pester them until they beat him up. Pike got neutered last April and my friend started watching Pike for those looks and redirected him and the fights between the other 2 boys stopped completely. It was all Pike. He started everything.
BTW Grizz gets along with every other dog in the universe just fine. Justice gets along with other dogs as well. However, if a girl is in heat, all bets are off. Boys are not together then. Everyone will fight-Justice ,Grizz and Jamie even Porter and Pike were getting looks last time. Not pretty. Any chance there is a in season girl in the area?
I would definitely go with NILIF with both dogs. Don't leave them alone together and treat them just like Caro suggested. Unless these are show dogs/breeding dogs , I would get both of them neutered ASAP. It may not solve your issue but it will take the wind out of their sails.