Finding a healthy companion--Advice, please?

[Sheltiez4evr]

Hi,

I need some advice as my hubby and I will be ready to add an older puppy or a young adult girl to our family this year. My question is about genetic testing and clearance by parentage. We know from sad experience that there are really no perfect guarantees of health.

Here's our story...skip this part if you're in a hurry...

We are life-long Sheltie people, and we have had our hearts shattered twice in the past five years by surprise deaths caused by genetic illnesses, specifically vonWillenbrand's disease and epilepsy. Both dogs came from reputable breeders. Bridget was believed to be clear of vWD by parentage, but we lost her to bleeding after a dental cleaning. Nothing is certain.

Our 13 year old girl, Whisper, was very ill this Spring with thyroid issues, but good veterinary treatment an RX diet, and plenty of TLC have given her a new lease on life.

Bridget came to us with a pedigree, records of genetic tests for hips and eyes, and vet records.

End of story.

Now for the question--What tests do you think are necessary to rule out as many genetic health issues as possible? What tests do breeders usually perform? Would a breeder be open to doing additional tests at our expense?

Is there a book or comprehensive website that you could recommend on health issues and tests?

We could never use a breeder health guarantee, because once we take guardianship of our fur kids, they are family for life. We become deeply attached very quickly. Neither my husband or I could return anyone. That may sound foolish, but there it is.

I'll be grateful for any advice you might offer.

 

[Hannah]

I'm so sorry to hear of the loss of two of your babies to genetic illnesses. I'm afraid I don't have the knowledge to give you any advice, but hopefully someone else can. I don't blame you for not wanting to return a dog who has become a family member. All the best with your search for a healthy new fur kid.

 

[tofu pup]

I am so sorry to learn of your dogs' health problems. It is heartbreaking, especially as you thought you were "in the clear".

There are conditions that can be tested for, and conditions that can't. There are physical evaluation tests for hips (OFA or PennHip), elbows (OFA), and eyes (CERF). There are genetic tests for von Willebrand's, Collie eye, thyroid, and drug sensitivity (MDR1).

Unfortunately, there are no tests (that I know of) for epilepsy or Sheltie skin syndrome. These are problems in some families of dogs, but by no means in all.

Many breeders will do hips, CERF, and MDR1, and only do von Willebrand's if there is a concern in the family (because of the inheritance of vWD, it's fairly simple to rule it out - but as you know, this isn't a guarantee). Stud dogs tend to have had more tests done than brood bitches.

I encourage you to learn as much as you can about potential health problems (you can start with the ASSA website, here)http://www.assa.org/health.html, and to speak candidly to any prospective breeders about your concerns. Some breeders are more rigorous about testing than others. If there are certain tests that you feel are very important that you aren't seeing run, I imagine that a breeder would be open to additional testing - it really is a matter of your finding the right breeder for you, who shares your concerns.

One thought (since I see you're open to a young adult female) may be to consider a slightly more middle-aged female, who has been bred. She should already have some health clearances, if not every single one, and she would be old enough that the likelihood of unforeseen, non-testable health problems developing would be less.

I also want to touch upon your comment regarding health guarantees. It is true that some breeders guarantee the health of their puppies, only if you are willing to return the sick puppy to the breeder. This is a setup; they know that no reasonable person who loves their dog is going to return him or her (especially when sick!) to get their money back - so no one ever collects on that guarantee.

Not all breeders use such a guarantee. Some will offer instead to (of course) let you keep the ill dog, and agree to place a new puppy with you when the time is right.

So much of finding the right breeder is finding someone whose goals and values match well with yours. There really is a getting-to-know-you process, on both sides, and I encourage you to ask questions and to be picky. It's OK to politely decline and move on, if you don't have a great gut feeling about a breeder.

I wish you all the best as you search for your next Sheltie companion. You sound like very thoughtful people who can provide a wonderful home to a little dog.

 

[Ann]

We could never use a breeder health guarantee, because once we take guardianship of our fur kids, they are family for life. We become deeply attached very quickly. Neither my husband or I could return anyone. That may sound foolish, but there it is.

I don't think this is foolish at all. My oldest Sheltie came to me from a breeder some distance away and had epilepsy. She is 9 now, and has had health issues all her life. Even though she had her first seizure at 10 weeks old, I could never have returned her. I give you credit for caring for your dogs through thick and thin. It's not easy to do.

Tofupup has given you great information. Unfortunately, there are no guarantees. Even the best breeders can only do the best they can with the information they have. Using dogs they know, frequently from their own lines (line breeding) is sometimes the only way to really know if there may be potential health issues in the puppies they breed.

 

[Sheltiez4evr]

Thank you!

Thanks, everyone for helping me out, here.

The ASSA site is very helpful, and I'll keep educating myself.

With knowledge, patience, and caution, I know we'll find the right companion.

Tofu pup, our Whisper is a breeding program retiree, and she is such a wonderful girl. My hubby and I discussed this over lunch and we've decided on this course.
I've learned much from your post, especially about tests for elbows and thyroid.

And now,I understand better how line breeding creates a family tree with health and temperament. Thanks, Ann. I have much to learn about the wonderful breed we all love so much.

Hannah, thanks for your support--and for making me feel better about bonding so closely with my furries.

Sheltie Nation is wonderful, because we are Sheltie lovers--regular folk, breeders, medical folk--and not high pressure capitalists. I've found too many of those sites in my search. Kelly has done a wonderful job in building this community. I'm grateful to be here.

Now, it's time to get online, make some good connections, and find the right breeder who has an adult girl and is willing to put up with picky me. That's the fun of it, seeing all those wonderful Sheltie photos and meeting Sheltie folks.

See you on the boards!

 

[Sullivan]

Hi Sheltiez4evr, I don't really have any advice for you with your issues. I just wanted to say good luck in your search and when the right fur baby is presented to you and you look into each others eyes, you will know the one. Good luck, please keep us posted.

 

[tesslynn]

epilepsy and seizures

I don't think this is foolish at all. My oldest Sheltie came to me from a breeder some distance away and had epilepsy. She is 9 now, and has had health issues all her life. Even though she had her first seizure at 10 weeks old, I could never have returned her.

I wanted to address this because if you ever experience seizures/epilepsy in your sheltie your heart about DIES as they fall over, start foaming at the mouth, jerk, etc. My previous sheltie was HEALTHY, at 15, there was a bad storm and I had run out of food, dashed to the pet store, they were out of our brand, because of shipping delays, picked up the closest kibble available. Came home, fed it to my girl, not 30 mins later, full blown seizure. SCARED me to death. I thought, has to be the food, nothing else changed. She came out of it so disoriented, shaking, etc. Took to the internet and found out rosemary extract was a contributing factor...went back to the label-BINGO...it had rosemary. Went back to our regular food, no issues. Then got some treats from a friend...30 mins later, violent seizure...checked the labeling-rosemary extract...again, bad NEWS for my woof. That seemed to trigger the process...she was older, but not failing in any sense, other than she couldn't hear. I went on a natural diet, because I was determined NOT to have anything awful ingested. I mean at her age, she earned having mom do everything possible to maintain her. The current vet, who bought the practice from my previous fantastic vet was USELESS, wanted to medicate her out the wazoo, at that age, I wasn't about to guinea pig her with his "suggestions" because he kept saying older dogs are a challenge-to me that meant, I have no clue but let me just pump her full of stuff that might help but might not and charge you for my ability to "practice" on her, ah NO. Previous vet would have NEVER done that. My RN friend advised taurine, lecithin and essential oils. She was having a seizure twice monthly...and those lessoned with this regime...she seemed ok, every other full moon, she would have a seizure, but they weren't as severe as before, phew. She was doing GREAT for her age on a strict organic diet. She grew this tremendous coat of fur that surpassed any previous coat. Found a holistic vet...he couldn't believe how well she was doing for her age...but being 17 then, well I knew it wouldn't be long before she left me. He gave me further diet suggestions and told me to prepare for her departure, she went peacefully, crawled up into my arms, acted like she was about to have a seizure but just breathed hard and expired 1-29-2014. My point is there are things in their diet that might be causing the seizures, start there and eliminate those. I don't BELIEVE in prescription meds, too concentrated for the body, too many side effects, I will always go herbal because they are better tolerated for humans and pets. And shelties are a sensitive breed, so really tread carefully as they are reactive. Diet is SO important and contributes to overall wellness. And you can't convince me that the vaccines aren't lethal to pets . Read up on it, they keep pet clinics open, they are profit maker. My previous vet was a country old time guy who didn't believe that the "modern" approach was pet friendly...I loved him for that!!! My mom was premed...and I loved her approach...she said Drs are good for bone setting, some emergencies that are life threatening, but don't ever let them "practice" medicine on you. I concur. Be ever so diligent about what you allow into your woof!

 

[Sheltiez4evr]

I'm sorry you and your Sheltie had this experience, and that she's crossed Rainbow Bridge. Thank you for letting us know about the seizure/rosemary connection.

Diet is the basis of health. I'm learning about Sheltie nutrition and am getting ready to switch from Science Diet thanks to advice from members here.

 

[tesslynn]

ditch science diet !!!

I'm sorry you and your Sheltie had this experience, and that she's crossed Rainbow Bridge. Thank you for letting us know about the seizure/rosemary connection.

Diet is the basis of health. I'm learning about Sheltie nutrition and am getting ready to switch from Science Diet thanks to advice from members here.

Yes, it is sold in vets offices, the stuff is TRASH...please DO NOT FEED a sheltie that stuff. It gets LOW stars 2.5, wheat is NOT food for a dog and causes so many problems in pets and humans, so many BETTER more healthy choices available. And who KNOWS if the wheat is GMO, which it probably is, and that stuff is TOXIC, it is NOT food.

check out www.dogfoodadvisor.com they rate the dog foods and are NOT subsidized by those trying to make a profit off our pets.

Sorry, I get passionate about food choices in people and pets because our diet, especially in the US is causing much of the disease in our nation. Poor diet = poor health.

 

[tofu pup]

And who KNOWS if the wheat is GMO, which it probably is, and that stuff is TOXIC, it is NOT food.

The really scary thing is that, if you look at all the people who have eaten wheat in the past four thousand years, the vast majority are now dead.

Let's please keep this on the topic of the original discussion. If we want to debate dog food, we can do that in the dog food section. If we want to debate human food, we can do that on a different website.