Forced Retrieves

I cannot be more against the ear-pinch method. It ruined a good dog for me, and caused me a dog's lifetime of regret, not to mention many tears.

My first dog was Neechee, as you all know. He was my first "hands-on" dog of my adult life (I was raised with dogs, but they were all "yard dogs" and "hunting dogs" - not very integrated into the family.) He was enrolled in puppy classes from the age of 8 weeks on. Our trainer was an obedience competitor from way back, with Corgis and Goldens, and thought Neechee had what it took to make a good competitor. So he was put on the competition track, and was in training classes for almost 6 years straight.

Neechee was a big retriever just in playing (though he initially had to be taught that trying to herd it back to me wasn't the way to go). He never (and I mean NEVER) refused a retrieve while playing. I let my trainer (in all other respects, and excellent trainer) talk me into using the ear pinch method. I was told that unless there was a negative aspect to NOT bringing the dumbbell back, the dog wouldn't properly learn the behavior.

Neechee was NEVER trained with negative conditioning. I read everything I could get my hands on about operant conditioning, and made a conscious effort to avoid anything negative.

The class came about when I was forced to make a decision. I had resisted for a while, and saw others in the class use the method. All the others had good results, and dogs that would eagerly retrieve on command. So I made the horrific mistake of trying it.

Little Neechee (all 12 pounds and 13 inches of him) was shocked that I would do anything to hurt him and revealed a surprisingly stubborn streak. He basically shut down and refused to do ANYTHING. He just stood there and yelped bloody murder. I won't go into all the gory details (I am ashamed of myself as it is), but I was unashamedly in tears by the end of the class. For hours afterwards, I held my dog and cried. I STILL cry when I think of that awful day. As much as I could, I tried to make it up to him.

My cheerful little boy, who brought me toys and asked to play all the time NEVER PLAYED AGAIN. Oh yes, he would retrieve when asked, but his sweet little puppy spirit was broken.

Eventually, he recovered and would play with me using hands only, but he never touched a toy for over 10 years. (Later in life, when he developed an inexplicable hatred of closing doors, telephones and doorbells, he would seize any toy or sock or clothing in the floor and viciously shake it in a temper tantrum.) For the rest of his long life, he wouldn't play like he did before.

My Border Collies were NEVER trained using the ear pinch method. I had the same trainer for them, but I absolutely refused to use her methods. I used strictly positive reinforcement (by this time, I was in college taking psychology courses), and developed my own system based on the personality of the dog. After Neechee, I never had another dog (and I had 3) that refused a retrieve in the ring.

It saddens me that this horrible method is getting any exposure at all. While I admit that some dogs may do well on this method with SOME trainers, I'm not one of them. I strongly disapprove of it. I'll never use it, and I'll never recommend that anyone else does, either.

It is the one great regret of my life that I used it with Neechee. I was so lucky that he loved me enough to forgive me, because I never to this day have forgiven myself (and I find myself apologizing to his ashes on occasion).

If you haven't tried this method, DON'T. Shelties don't need it. They are bred to be gentle, willing, and joyful. Don't ruin that. You can almost always fix the physical damage, but the emotional and mental damage is there permanently.
 
Jaynie, your story is heartbreaking... I'm sorry that you and your pup had to go through that. When I was a 4-H kid, my instructor told me to "fix" my lagging Sheltie by reaching down, grabbing her scruff, and dragging her forward. It was terrible.

I had never heard of the "ear pinch" technique, so I did some reading. I think the photo on this page says it all: dog tied down so he can't go anywhere, with an e-collar (which, in all fairness, might not be turned on right now), a length of rope tied through his toes and pulled on, and a dead/crazed/glassy look in his eye. Doesn't it look like fun, training dogs? Well, look at all those ribbons in the background! It must be worth it, right?

Because what, really, is the point?
 
oh dear
You did what you did with what you knew at the time. I know it felt wrong, but it is what it is, we didn't know better back then. We depended on Instructors, who were supposed to be the experts.

It's different now, you learned from it and that is the true spirit with which you train now. It takes plenty of courage and time and the desire to know more to do what you did SINCE then.
Neechee taught you a lesson and that is the one you never forget, not the one the Instructor insisted to hold on to... it's done and over with. He forgave you in his own way, it's time you did the same. You're a good person, a lovely trainer and a good Mom and were to Neechee as well, because you learned from it, and kudos to you for sharing to ensure others don't go down that road!
 
I have known dogs trained that way and I feel good that I've never needed feel like it is a tool I would use. Firstly, because I don't understand it and if i don't understand it then the timing of the reinforcements would be wrong and it would be doomed to fail. I tell my friends, if you don't understand it, your dog will not either!

I've taught 4 dogs to retrieve, only one did not have any retrieve instinct. That would be puppy. He has it now... not specifically dumbells, but he is carrying his metal dinner bowl to me, and the tennis ball, and the glove, and is learning take it and hold it in a sit postion. Somehow though when the butt hits the floor the mouth opens and anything in the mouth pops out... :lol:

oh well, back to the subject...

I'm glad shelties are super smart doggies, and few I know have ever had to have the ear pinched.
 
Jaynie, please forgive yourself. Your dog has, and your painful experience is a lesson valuable to those who read it here and consider their options other than "because the instructor says so"

We have all made mistakes and need to forgive ourselves. My Novice A dog deserves her angel wings for not biting my head off when I didn't know what I was doing.
 
Thanks Dr Shelli for explaining that. The whole technique sounds positively dreadful.

I remember while watching obedience trials last year, I was seated on the floor with Juliet along the side of the ring and borrowed my trainer's dumbbell. I'd not taught Juliet to retrieve at all, but in the span of minutes, on her first lesson, I could get her to bring the dumbbell back from about 3ft away with some treats and a clicker, and then had to put it away coz she wouldn't stop! :lol:

Jaynie, your story brought tears to my eyes. Your dog has forgiven you and you should forgive yourself! It was a lesson well learnt and that's the important thing.
 
Thanks Dr Shelli for explaining that. The whole technique sounds positively dreadful.

I remember while watching obedience trials last year, I was seated on the floor with Juliet along the side of the ring and borrowed my trainer's dumbbell. I'd not taught Juliet to retrieve at all, but in the span of minutes, on her first lesson, I could get her to bring the dumbbell back from about 3ft away with some treats and a clicker, and then had to put it away coz she wouldn't stop! :lol:

Jaynie, your story brought tears to my eyes. Your dog has forgiven you and you should forgive yourself! It was a lesson well learnt and that's the important thing.

Juliet sounds like a natural retriever. Justice was I threw the dumbbell and he went and got it. Easy pleasy. Ember took 5 months and Diva 6 months. Shaped retrieves(Diva clicker and Ember not with a clicker but "yes" but same thing) Birch is a natural.

Diva's mom was ear pinched:( I know this because I know the trainer she went to, told her not too-for various reasons) She got her CDX but that was as far as it went because she got to utility and found out in the ring that she wouldn't be corrected and no one would make she find articles that was it . SO much for the realible 100% retrieve.

It is sad because that dog had so much potential. 199 dog is Novice. Of course,the instructor blamed the dog and call her stubborn and willfull. :no: She was her owner's first obedience dog and believed that was the way it should be done. Nothing I could say would change her mind. The trainer has over 25 yrs training obedience , who was I. Sad part I have 2 UDXs(in 2 AKC dogs so far) and the so called professional trainer(1 UDX in 25 yrs).

I have no idea why people continue to believe and use these techniques.
 
Back
Top