Getting concerned

[Ann]

I would just go with the flow right now. Ride it out, and give it time.

These two shelties will work out everything, and become best friends. It just takes time. And you should give it every chance.

Even Bella will learn to settle with Steve. You can see her trying, when he is seated, and won't be moving toward her. She has to feel comfortable in her own time. (ask Ann about this with Lacey).

As far as the food, I would throw out the canned, use the kibble adding a little baby food chicken with water for flavor, then back off the chicken until she is eating her kibble.

I believe I posted this in one of your other threads, but I can say from experience you have not had her nearly long enough for her (or Laddie) to adjust. As missjennygirl said, when Lacey came home to us it was much like your situation, times 3. We had three other Shelties, and Lacey was very needy and timid and afraid of her shadow. Worse, she was terrified of my husband and would not let him near her. She wouldn't eat for the first month she lived here, except in her crate in the middle of the night when she felt safe.

There were several times that Connie (missjennygirl) and I talked about sending her back. DH and I just couldn't bring ourselves to give up, as frustrating as it was, especially for him. He loves the dogs so and really tried to win her over.

Then a friend who is a behaviorist told me to have DH completely ignore Lacey...not even to look at her. It was hard, but that's what he did. Slowly, ever so slowly, she began to come around. It took more than six months. One day a switch flipped in her little head, and she went to him. We couldn't believe it. Now he is her best friend and goes to him for affection and pats. We often marvel at how different it is from when she came.

She began eating normally after a month or so, again slowly and with some coaxing. As she became more secure and confident with us and her surroundings, the other dogs began to accept her. Now she's a member of the pack and holds her own.

I agree with Connie. Give it time, and be patient. Laddie will adjust. If you feel the play is too rough, don't hesitate to say NO firmly and dial it down. They will figure it out but you have to be the alpha. Bella will realize that you are in charge and not Laddie, and then she will become more confident. Rolling over on her back is a submissive behavior. Bella was clearly low pup on the totem pole in her previous group of dogs. She needs to gain confidence and find her own place in your herd, both human and canine. It will take time but it will come.

Laddie is exhibiting normal behavior regressing and eliminating in the house. He's staking out his territory. He'll get over that too. These things are all adjustment issues. If you can hang on and persevere, in a few months you won't believe she's the same dog and they will be best friends.

 

[Laddie's Mom]

Maybe the breeder is not the place for Laddie either. I think the very first post I ever read from you was whether you should rehome Laddie and search for your heart dog.

Maybe you can find a home for him yourself, maybe someone from dog school who adored him or something? A friend? A neighbor? Your vet? Is there someone who adores Laddie and who he seems to respond to and who would take super good care of him?

Like you said, you would keep her if Laddie were taken in the rapture. Maybe there is better placement for him but not necessarily sending him back to the breeder?

Hang in there and think about all options and what is best for you, your husband, and both dogs together or separately.

Unfortunately, I had to sign a contract that said I would not rehome either dog unless I got her permission, so, that would not work, also, I do not know anyone who loves him like that, Steve is the only one. *sigh*

 

[Mom2Melli]

That's good on the breeder's part to offer that.

Give it time. It's been a short time. I am 5 months into this and we are just settling into the routine but still have a bit more to work out.

I bet they will work it out and settle in.

 

[Tabitha]

I agree with the others. If I had the mind set your having right now, Jody would have been gone a LONG time ago. F-kap hated him. My most special baby hated my new wonderful baby that I loved so much. I'd do anything for both, and I did consider taking Joe back to the breeder many times. But I waited it out. I played with them together and separately. Walked them together and separately. Fed the SEPARATELY. F-kap would sleep in my bed, Jody in the play pin by my bed. Eventually things started getting better. They still arn't BEST friends, but it's much better and I don't have to constantly watch them. They play nicely for a while (F-kap's hips bother him, so there's only so much playing he can stand).

Give it time. My boys are the best dogs I've ever had. I couldn't imagine my life without either of them and it took months for them to start getting along. It hasn't even been a month for your kids. Be patent, both their worlds have been twisted out of shape and they don't like it, but it IS coming along and they will be good together with time. Try using a belly band on Lad, it'll help with the marking. Praying things get better very soon.

 

[melbell]

I agree with everyone else. Definitely give it more time. Although Honey hates puppies and growled at Ruutu and would even snap at him when he was a baby baby they learned how to work it out. It took a while though. I think it took until he was about 6 months. Now they'll play chase occasionally but mainly tug-o-war. I highly recommend if you think their "play" is getting too rough, tell them both no. I make both mine sit and not move for a minute when they're misbehaving with each other.

The peeing/pooing in the house to me screams that he's marking his territory. Laddie isn't willing to give up his home and probably feels threatened. Make sure during this process you're giving him just as much attention as Bella.

Someone mentioned Bella isn't spayed, do you know when she's due to come in heat? This could also be along the lines of marking that "she's his property" I'm dealing with that battle right now as Honey is in heat and Ruutu crying for her... it's annoying. You'd think we severely injured the dog if you heard his cries.

 

[Mom2Melli]

Do you take them both for walks? Together?

I have had the best success with bonding dogs by spending a lot of time briskly walking (they were big dogs so brisk is relative to size) and forcing them to sort of work together "pulling" me. Not running all over and peeing like crazy and smelling, but like walking down the center of a dirt road really walking as a team. It's good neutral ground too. Years and years later, the Dog Whisperer guy (for all his ups and downs) mentioned this and it had worked for me so it kind of stuck in my head. I used to have a canal near our house and we would walk the dogs back there. It seemed to make them think they were working, being Aussies and having some teamwork instinct in their pointy big heads.

Perhaps either you and husband each with a dog side by side or you with two leashes? Just a thought.

 

[jomuir]

We had our rescue Sheltie Roxie before we got Forrest. Roxie was a very timid girl, due in large part to her first home. We worked so hard getting her to trust, love, and just have fun. Then we brought Forrest home. They do love each other but-Forrest is too rambunctious at times, he also puts Roxies head in his mouth, 'bites' her neck, and occasionally bowls her over. It was pretty bad for a while when he first came home to us, he's much more boyish & loves to play rough & tumble. Roxie started regressing, potty training suddenly became a problem, she was afraid to go outside w/him, etc.

We went on a lockdown for Forrest. He wasn't allowed to go outside w/her alone for a long time, he was scolded strongly when he got too rough with her. We also started making him wait at the door while she goes out ahead of him (he was knocking anyone in his path down to get outside). Whenever we see him manhandling Roxie (he still gets too rough after 3 yrs), he is corrected (usually by us yelling at him). We've really made an effort to keep Roxie safe & unmolested, and she has learned to defend herself more too.

Every now & then Forrest gets a good nip from her, always deserved. Luckily, they've never gotten to any growling or true fights. I hope you can work on this & keep them both, but I understand your worries, we worried a lot too at first. The growling would concern me.

 

[bi-blacks]

Everyone has great advice. It does take time for the first dog to adjust. I remember when we got our husky, Shelby our sheltie was less than impressed. He had always been a wonderful boy but when Shilo came along there were times of aggression, usually over rawhides and I would cry and worry how things were ever going to work out. But of course with patience and love on our part they became wonderful pals and when Shelby passed away Shilo was completely lost and very lonely. You really do need to give it more time. I believe Laddie is trying to show Bella her place in the pack but I really think things will work out for you. Our current two play very hard and sometimes aggressively (bits of hair in the mouth as evidence) but 2 mins. later all is well. Some just play that way and you get used to it.

 

[roxyllsk]

My first and 2nd sheltie didn't like each other at all the first month together. The 2nd younger one kept challenging the older one. I realize now it was mostly because the 2nd one had very poor social skills and didn't get that he should back off. I considered sending the 2nd one back to the rescue but I felt really sorry for him so wanted to give him a chance.

Finally the first one had enough and seriously put the 2nd on in his place. He was not a mean dog but he told the younger one in no uncertain terms that enough was enough. It was not pretty but it sounded way worse than it was.

That was the end of it - they never fought ever again. They were never warm and fuzzy with each other, but they respected each other's space and got along just fine.

Now I'm not saying you should let this happen - what I'm saying is that they need to figure out their place in the household. Laddie may be upset that he has to share you with another dog. Since she is being submissive, make sure you do everything with Laddie first. IE, he gets his dinner first, he gets the leash on first, he gets the treat first, he gets the pets first. But then make sure you give her the same thing, just after Laddie. Once he understands that he is first, his behavior may improve.

And it's also not unusal for an exisiting dog to have accidents in the house when a new dog is introduced. He's probably marking his territory. He will likely get over this with a bit more time. In the meantime try and get him out more frequently and reward him like crazy when he goes outside.

Be patient and give them a little more time. I would not leave them together unsupervised for now, either.

 

[Laddie's Mom]

Thanks for all the terrific advice. I will try what you folks have suggested.

They seem to be really "picking on each other" especially Laddie, now, poor Bella can not even go out to pee or do the other without him hassling her, I am getting worried, I guess I will have to separate them when they do anything, I really had no idea I would be having these difficulties.

I have not walked them together, I mean, Steve and I go on walks witht them, but they are on separate leashes. They both pull like sled dogs, even though she is little her strength is phenomenal. I might try to get a leash that has two hooks for when I do want to walk them side by side. Might be more trouble than it is worth right now however.

We just have to see, I will give it more time, but if it gets worse, one leaves, and I feel it will not be my Bella, what a mess.