going in his cage and he won't stop

You said that he goes outside sometimes..but then comes in and goes more in his crate...
When he goes outside does he come right back in? I was always told that after they go...stay out and play for a bit just to make sure they are done...guess thats a puppy thing...
Then...if he has gone potty..why is he put back into his crate? If his bladder is empty and he's been a good boy and gone in the right place..he should have earned the right of some free time and time with you playing.

Heres what my breeder told me..and it worked out great!!

Write down the times of day that puppy does his job...feed pup at the same times everyday. There will start to be a pattern when puppy has to go. Pretty soon you will know...its been a half hour since he ate..so he needs to go out now...and eventually you will be able to "read" his signs that he needs to go out...with Shelties, sometimes its pretty subtle..like just stareing at you..LOL
Take puppy out on leash every single time to potty...have yummy stinky treats with you....go to where you would like him to do it..and stand in one spot...they will sniff alot to find the right spot..if you walk around..it will take longer because they will want to sniff all the new places before they go...
You have to be patient..it might take up to 10-15 minutes before he goes...While you are waiting...keep saying your "potty" word...whatever you say for the deed..LOL We say "go potty".... Then when he does the deed..say "GOOD POTTY" and have a little happy party and give the yummy stinky treat you brought with you...its important to give the treat right then and there...if you wait til you go inside, he won't know that he's getting it for pottying outside. After your little happy party..let him off his leash (if your yard is fenced and secure) and have a play time. I think this will speed up his sniffing time before going potty because he will learn..he's on leash til he goes and free after he goes...
Now if he doesn't go after 10-15 minutes...just walk back inside and put him in his crate...and wait another 15-30 minutes and try again...
I call this period.."Puppy Potty Hell" LOL

On the crate...sounds like you've cleaned it good..so I'm thinking its just too big...can you make a barrier out of cardboard or something? something temporary so as he grows you can make it bigger?
Oooo another thought...If you can figure out when he pottied in his crate..that will give you a clue...maybe its been too long since he went out...??

Good luck!!

Julie
Clancy & Abby

Yep, that pretty much sums up Training 101 well!
 
Agreed... that's a great summary of basic house training. Follow these directions consistently & you'll get results. It's that "consistently" that gives most people problems.:wink2:
 
I'm doing it differently

I've read advice against using the "Wee Wee" pads, but I'm using them because going outside here 50 times a day just isn't going to work for me.

I'm in Florida and it's hotter than you know what. We have a lawn service that sprays God knows what on the lawn to kill the hardy persistent bugs and weeds that are so prevalent down here. My husband puts down granules of stuff that I'm sure are nasty too. Almost every afternoon there are torrential rains.

So, I use the aforementioned pads. I don't put one in her crate, but have a little pen in which I place 2. When I get her up in the middle of the night to pee, I use the pads. It's only been a week tonight, but she is consistent about using the pad at night. I try to make sure she is in her pen after her 3 meals until she goes. The pads do not cover the whole pen area, but she has been almost perfect in using the pad area to go potty. We have a large screened porch and I intend to train her to use pads out there, then transition.

I know this isn't the recommended method, but it's working for us. She has never messed up in her crate and is larger than what I think is recommended for crate training.

The key for us has been to watch her carefully and make sure she is where there are pads when it's time to potty. That way we can always praise her and I think she'll catch on quicker.

They are SO darn cute during this puppy stage, but the trace-off for cute is going through this potty stuff.:lol:
 
Ultimately, you have to go with what works for you. It's great that she's so consistent this early on. And I understand where you are coming from regarding use of pesticides etc.

Part of the reason, I'm not fond of pee pads is that you want your pup to be able to go anywhere outside without having to drag pee pads around with you whereever you go. Imagine going to visit a friend with your pup and having to bring plunk down a pee pad in her house because the pup hasn't learned to "go outside".

Just food for thought.
 
I've read advice against using the "Wee Wee" pads, but I'm using them because going outside here 50 times a day just isn't going to work for me.

I'm in Florida and it's hotter than you know what. We have a lawn service that sprays God knows what on the lawn to kill the hardy persistent bugs and weeds that are so prevalent down here. My husband puts down granules of stuff that I'm sure are nasty too. Almost every afternoon there are torrential rains.

So, I use the aforementioned pads. I don't put one in her crate, but have a little pen in which I place 2. When I get her up in the middle of the night to pee, I use the pads. It's only been a week tonight, but she is consistent about using the pad at night. I try to make sure she is in her pen after her 3 meals until she goes. The pads do not cover the whole pen area, but she has been almost perfect in using the pad area to go potty. We have a large screened porch and I intend to train her to use pads out there, then transition.

I know this isn't the recommended method, but it's working for us. She has never messed up in her crate and is larger than what I think is recommended for crate training.

The key for us has been to watch her carefully and make sure she is where there are pads when it's time to potty. That way we can always praise her and I think she'll catch on quicker.

They are SO darn cute during this puppy stage, but the trace-off for cute is going through this potty stuff.:lol:

Different people have luck with different methods. Just because the one you're using is not the method of choice for most, doesn't mean its wrong. Whatever works, works :smile2:
 
Ultimately, you have to go with what works for you. It's great that she's so consistent this early on. And I understand where you are coming from regarding use of pesticides etc.

Part of the reason, I'm not fond of pee pads is that you want your pup to be able to go anywhere outside without having to drag pee pads around with you whereever you go. Imagine going to visit a friend with your pup and having to bring plunk down a pee pad in her house because the pup hasn't learned to "go outside".

Just food for thought.

You're absolutely right and I am already thinking of how to transition to screen porch use of pads and then outside. If I don't do something, she will have a problem.

I'm trying to talk my husband into leaving a patch of grass next to the patio "natural." NO spraying, NO granules, NO nothing. He's afraid if we don't treat the cinch bugs will take over and kill the lawn. I can't stand this St. Augustine grass. Up North it's called crabgrass!
 
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