Help desperately needed

[Toffee's Mom]

Welcome!
What you got on your hand is a dog that is TOO SMART! lol

I completely agree with the suggestion to start out new and fresh, as if you just got him. Coming in has to be better than ANYTHING outside... Dogs cannot be 'punished' or 'taught' anything with time outs (or spanking, ever in my opinion) but I understand it helped with human frustration, lol, but it has opposite effect on dogs. They are dogs, not kids... which doesn't imply I believe in spanking them either, just kinda understand more why you would!!

As well, he needs time/walks alone with you for training!

When you DO go for a walk, start out by rewarding him EVERY TIME he does his business, as if he was a puppy again... This will shape his behaviour of relieving himself while on a leash... this way when you are in hurry you can count on him to go when he is leashed, even if you are pressed for time. In addition WHILE he is pooping/peeing tell him Go Pee/Go Poop... this will shape the behaviour so that Toffee now pretty much goes when I tell him, never takes him more than 30 seconds... FUNNY thing is my friend's kids pointed out to me while babysitting, how weird I was by still saying Good Poop/Pee when he does it... boy I didn't realize I was still saying it out loud!! hahahaha

Hope some of this helps
Good luck.. and remember when you are frustrated better to put yourself in time out, to calm down, lol then to try and 'train' trust me I know!!

 

[RonandJan]

By the way, most of the really good behavior clicks in at one year.

Chris, TRUE TRUE!

Puppies are cute and adorable and impressionable and wonderful; however, adult dogs are all those things PLUS, good and well mannered and well educated and just the best companions (if they are trained correctly).

 

[lukabear]

Welcome!
What you got on your hand is a dog that is TOO SMART! lol

I completely agree with the suggestion to start out new and fresh, as if you just got him. Coming in has to be better than ANYTHING outside... Dogs cannot be 'punished' or 'taught' anything with time outs (or spanking, ever in my opinion) but I understand it helped with human frustration, lol, but it has opposite effect on dogs. They are dogs, not kids... which doesn't imply I believe in spanking them either, just kinda understand more why you would!!

As well, he needs time/walks alone with you for training!

When you DO go for a walk, start out by rewarding him EVERY TIME he does his business, as if he was a puppy again... This will shape his behaviour of relieving himself while on a leash... this way when you are in hurry you can count on him to go when he is leashed, even if you are pressed for time. In addition WHILE he is pooping/peeing tell him Go Pee/Go Poop... this will shape the behaviour so that Toffee now pretty much goes when I tell him, never takes him more than 30 seconds... FUNNY thing is my friend's kids pointed out to me while babysitting, how weird I was by still saying Good Poop/Pee when he does it... boy I didn't realize I was still saying it out loud!! hahahaha

Hope some of this helps
Good luck.. and remember when you are frustrated better to put yourself in time out, to calm down, lol then to try and 'train' trust me I know!!

I'll most certainly start doing that. He was praised when we first got him after each potty/during. I'm actually wondering now if we stopped it too soon when it seemed like he "got" it. Thank you for your input.

 

[Caro]

Sounds like PUPPY ADOLESCENCE!

Your dogs have just entered the doggie version of teenagers - with all the encumbent problems. They test the waters, go selectively deaf and forget everything you thought you had taught them. And you are going through 2 lots of adolescence!

The difference between your two could be because they are both forging their own identities. My dogs are fairly close in age and I can tell you they work hard at being 'different' to each other. Once they got a bit older things changed, (about 18mths - 2 years).

I recommend walking them seperately at this stage - they are probably bonding a lot with each other. Walking them seperately means they learn to look towards you for leadership. At this age even a short walk alone with you is better than a longer walk together. I walked mine seperately at least once a day until they were 1yr old - it makes a huge difference.

I would put a short leash on both when you are around (yes even in the house and yard). That way when either is playing up you can easily grab the leash and bring them inside or put them in time-out without talking to them or coaxing or pleaing with them. I thoroughly recommend time-out for Shelties - being alone is the worst kind of punishment for a sheltie.

Puppy adolescence is a trying time for everyone. I think all pups should come with a warning about adolescence. Having two dogs from the same litter means adolescence 3-fold (each pup individually and together)! Luckily it doesnt last as long as human adolescence. Be patient, give direction. They are moving from puppy hood into the dog you want them to be, but they need all your guidance to do that.

 

[lukabear]

So I took the suggestion and gave a treat after each elimination, saying go __ each time during. I took them out at the same time because my bf wasn't home to take the other and they'd had water about 10 minutes prior, so I figured it'd be potty time.

He saw his brother get a treat for pottying ... and then the competition was on.

We've done it about 4 times successfully.

Yeah, what usually takes 15+ minutes...
Just took 5.

I'm shocked. Incredibly glad I found this forum.

 

[coopersmom]

Both sheltie boys I've had loved to play keep away when going out to potty. I too have experienced the "walk in the rain" to try and get a potty going. I would get so frustrated with Randy. A friend at work told me to put him a treat down in the kitchen floor after he potties outside. He will learn that when he potties, a treat awaits inside. I tried it and it did work. He still likes to go out and wander around but he will potty and rushes back to the house to go inside and get his cheerios & milk treat.