HELP.... is a martingale collar the answer?

karol said:
I guess the main reason for my question was all about the pulling/backing out with a distraction and worry that she will get out of her collar? So would the martingale be best?

I still plan on continuing what I'm doing as far as training; my goal is not for the collar to be used as punishment but as security in case she tried to back out of the collar while on a walk
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My rescue Toby not only pulls, but was very leash reactive. At his worst when he got upset he'd buck, lunge, jump in the air and try to back out of his gentle leader. He never once came even close to pulling it off, I only had to ensure that I didn't lose my grip on the leash. I highly doubt your dog could get out of a gentle leader, though I can't comment on other head halters.

Halti's actually come with an extra strap that attaches to the collar so that if they slip the head halter you're still attached to the regular collar, so you could always use a head collar and a martingale.

That being said, I don't know if that means the halti is easier to slip out of than the gentle leader. Since I've had so much success with the gentle leader, I personally would be more inclined to buy some rope and leash snaps from the hardware store and make my own tether for my gentle leader, than to go out and by a halti. But that's me.
 
if you go Gentle Leader road and IMHO it is best tool to deal with distractions, make sure you introduce it in very playful manner and very slowly. First play all kinds of games while reinforcing your pup to put his nose there, then let him eat in Gl then just wearing for short time, etc.
Also it is very important to work leash properly by sliding left hand to the clip and turning dog's face high and tilted back towards you for brief moment in order to work distraction.
Many dogs adjust to GL easily enough but do not expect that you just clip it on and go for walk. At least it is not how I was taught to do it.
 
The no-pull harnesses dont restrict any movement and dont rub. They are exactly the same shape as flyball and tracking harnesses and I can guarantee those dont restrain movement. I used the Gentle Leader harness for several weeks on Tully (trying out the shop products) and she had no problem playing fetch or chasing roos in it and it didnt rub. The restriction comes from the martingale enclosure at the front of the harness that tightens and steers the dog to the side if it pulls. But for very reactive dogs a head collar is still best as it provides much firmer control.

At the dog club shop we sell connectors to attach the head collars to the neck collar, but as Melissa said you can just buy a light rope/string to connect the collars.
 
ClantyreSheltie said:
I would avoid those no-pull harnesses. From the ones I have seen, they cut straight across the chest and shoulder, which hobbles front end movement and rubs against the shoulder blades. I just don't think that's good in the long run.

I am old school, and I use a choke for obedience training. They rarely get popped though, so I could really use any collar. The choke is more for consistency, so they know what the game is, rather than corrections.
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That is the key point; they rarely get popped. Many people use these so called chokes incorrectly. It should never hurt the dog. We had one with our shepherd, so far not with Sandstorm.
 
I think harnesses are best for security. I looked for a thin leather one for my Buffy and it has worked very well. Personally I didn't think no-pull was necessary since my Sheltie is so small. I looked more for security and something she couldn't get out of. Her problem was mostly that she was so fearful in the city. I needed something that could keep her safe and secure without causing any pain if she was to run or shy away from the trains. I can imagine martingales would work too; I just had issues finding one that was thin enough and cheap enough.

For training I don't think it's necessary to use a choke or martingale. The best way, IMO, to train a dog to walk next to you is with either a really cool toy or with treats. It takes patience but it works really well at the end of the day. You just have to keep drilling the heel in different places, and if your treats are cool enough the dog will eventually get it. Shelties are bred to heel; Buffy caught on to it faster than pretty much any of the other dogs in the class. To train your dog to be less reactive.... you can also do that with treats. You need to get your dog to focus on you over any distraction, so you need to be more exciting and interesting.

Also, you need to train a really strong "Leave it." I trained Leave It using pigeons because Buffy loves to chase those so much. I just said Leave it, Leave it, Leave it.... till we almost pass the pigeons. Then I let her chase them once she's done a really fantastic Leave It. ;)
 
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Personally, I feel that collars as training tools is the wrong way to teach a dog to walk without lunging. There are much better techniques which use reinforcement methods to teach your dog not to lunge, etc. That is your first defence.

The martingale is useful when you already have a trained dog, but where circumstances arise that throw them out of their usual pattern. Plus the martingale has the advantage of fitting loose on their ruff when not attached to a lead; therefore reducing matting. Shelties have thick necks in relation to their head size. This is where a martingale is perfect.

It allows me to keep a collar on my dogs at all times....including tags - without snagging or matting their fur.


To size a martingale: (Note: If you are for a custom, non adjustable collar, wait at least until dogs over 12 months. Their bodies change and you want to measure them at maturity.)

http://www.leashesbydesign.com/Information/Measuring/Measuring.html

http://www.leashesbydesign.com/Collars/Martingales/martingales.html

Hope this helps!
 
These are all great ideas, thanks so much. I can't wait to be out there everyday now that it's warmed up and the rain has stopped and I will be putting some of these new ideas to work.
 
good luck Karol!

Honestly, a face halter is the best way to go for lunging behavior. You'll be amazed at the difference it can make!

Toby does amazing with his gentle leader now. The only thing is, with him, he may always have to use it, because of his anxiety and the fact that he wasn't properly leashed trained for the first half of his life. If you start them young you can wean them onto a regular collar.
 
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