I as well do not believe in shock collar training, but my 11 month old Sheltie has one problem I cannot overcome, and that is the recall problem. Nothing in the form of clicker training, whistles, etc. gets his attention for a recall. Once Storm has his mind on something, recall does not happen. When he was younger he would respond, but not now. Any ideas, I need something to get his attention, and most of all he is not food motoviated. If I can somehow get his attention, he will come.
Help with recall
- Thread starter belvin20
- Start date
First question...is he neutered?
romeosangiovese
Forums Enthusiast
As someone who struggled ALOT with recalling an intact male, I can only tell you it takes a whole lot of time and patience. You really must go back to basics and start recall at arm's length and minimal (or no) distractions before increasing either of them. And you definitely don't need a shock collar for this!
You should also increase one at a time - if you want to increase distraction, you need start at a near distance and work it up again. If you want to increase distance, you start at a low distraction setting.
You must also know what motivates your dog - food? toys? Which kind? Not all food and toys are made equal! I've had people tell me their dog is not food motivated, then I whip out some roast beef and voila! It works!
Know what really turns your dog on! Is is the tripe? The liver? Baked? Dried? The squeaky furry toy? The ball? Motivators are your best friends!
Remember also that he is entering the dreaded teenage years, so he will try to push his luck and ignore you. Go back to treating him like a puppy again!
It also definitely helps to neuter. It can be done with him remaining intact - I was getting fab results with my dogs before he got snipped after much training. But he got even better once his balls were gone!
You should also increase one at a time - if you want to increase distraction, you need start at a near distance and work it up again. If you want to increase distance, you start at a low distraction setting.
You must also know what motivates your dog - food? toys? Which kind? Not all food and toys are made equal! I've had people tell me their dog is not food motivated, then I whip out some roast beef and voila! It works!
Know what really turns your dog on! Is is the tripe? The liver? Baked? Dried? The squeaky furry toy? The ball? Motivators are your best friends!Remember also that he is entering the dreaded teenage years, so he will try to push his luck and ignore you. Go back to treating him like a puppy again!
It also definitely helps to neuter. It can be done with him remaining intact - I was getting fab results with my dogs before he got snipped after much training. But he got even better once his balls were gone!
Storm has not been neutered. He was all set to be neutered abut 2 months ago, but when the vet did pre op blood work, we found Storm had Renal Dysplasia(Kidney Problems), so the vet canceled neutering, and suggest no surgery because of his kidneys. We have Storm on a special diet to help the kidney problem, but it looks like for now that neutering is not going to happen, so suggestions appreciated.
I agree with Romiosangiovese, especially that definitly no shock collar needed.
Take him out on a long lead to somewhere without major distractions preferably to begin with. Take with you something he is keen on either food or toy. Toy is preferable because you can interact with him using the toy whereas food is quickly gone. Your intention is to make you the centre of his world, you have to be more interesting than other dogs, dropped burgers kids, cars etc. Starting easy with no distractions and the toy you are maximising his chances of sucess and make a really big deal every time he comes back. If using food give him several pieces as a reward. Only when he is coming back each time do you move on (gradually) to more and more distractions. Still keeping him on the line and not giving him any occasion of ignoring the recall command. The line is a safety net not something to haul him in on BTW. If he doesn't come, try calling and running off in the opposite direction which is pretty much guarenteed to get him coming to you. I would be practicing this a LOT, so he is getting maximum oputunities for finding out how exciting being with you is. Don't let him off, especially where there are any kind of distractions, until he is rock solid and even when you have a reliable recall, it needs practicing/reinforcing reguarly.
All my boys are entire (apart from Yogi who was castrated for medical reasons at 7 years) and all have good recalls. Yogi is a reactive dog too (to other dogs) so I put a lot of work in with getting his recall off other dogs solid. Once he was reliably coming away from general distractions (sniffs etc) I started introducing high level distractions. I didn't want to use other dogs but as he is mad on tennis balls I began with calling him away from one placed on the ground, then rolled, then gently thrown etc until he would come to me rather than go for the ball. It didn't happen overnight but I got him to a stage where I could call him away from running at another dog if the need arose. I try to avoid putting him in that situation when I can so he is not constantly being tested and it's more an emergeny proceedure.
However Epic's recall is far and away the best because as soon as he could come out on walks I practiced calling him back over and over again, every time giving him a reward and fuss until he could recall even when running full tilt in the opposite direction. Twice I've been very glad of having put so much work in with him as it has prevented him bolting. Most of the time I will call the shelties back, give them a fuss and treat and let them go off again - when leads go back on they get more fuss. I also have worked at putting leads on randomly during walks and then taking them off again so they never knew what was going to happen.
I'm not sure how you are using the clicker - it should be a marker for correct behaviour not a means of getting attention. So if Storm is trotting off on a scent and you call and he looks back or stops of even slows down then mark it with a click. If he has been used to the clicker he should then anticipate getting his reward and come back. That is not the recall part though as you are simply telling him to start with that any positive response to you calling is good. If he completely ignores the call and gives no sign he has heard then the distraction is too great or he has got too far away from you so you need to take it back a stage and maximise his chances of doing it right. From a small response you gradually increase the criteria before you click - so from a head turned back you then wait until perhaps he turns his shoulders or even turns round. The more exciting you are and higher the value of reward, the quicker he will pick it up but there is no point taking him out for the first time and either clicking before he has offered a response or waiting for a complete recall before clicking.
If you put your problem into a new thead in the Training section I'm sure lots of people will be able to give you more specific advice. It isn't easy but you'll get there don't worry.
Take him out on a long lead to somewhere without major distractions preferably to begin with. Take with you something he is keen on either food or toy. Toy is preferable because you can interact with him using the toy whereas food is quickly gone. Your intention is to make you the centre of his world, you have to be more interesting than other dogs, dropped burgers kids, cars etc. Starting easy with no distractions and the toy you are maximising his chances of sucess and make a really big deal every time he comes back. If using food give him several pieces as a reward. Only when he is coming back each time do you move on (gradually) to more and more distractions. Still keeping him on the line and not giving him any occasion of ignoring the recall command. The line is a safety net not something to haul him in on BTW. If he doesn't come, try calling and running off in the opposite direction which is pretty much guarenteed to get him coming to you. I would be practicing this a LOT, so he is getting maximum oputunities for finding out how exciting being with you is. Don't let him off, especially where there are any kind of distractions, until he is rock solid and even when you have a reliable recall, it needs practicing/reinforcing reguarly.
All my boys are entire (apart from Yogi who was castrated for medical reasons at 7 years) and all have good recalls. Yogi is a reactive dog too (to other dogs) so I put a lot of work in with getting his recall off other dogs solid. Once he was reliably coming away from general distractions (sniffs etc) I started introducing high level distractions. I didn't want to use other dogs but as he is mad on tennis balls I began with calling him away from one placed on the ground, then rolled, then gently thrown etc until he would come to me rather than go for the ball. It didn't happen overnight but I got him to a stage where I could call him away from running at another dog if the need arose. I try to avoid putting him in that situation when I can so he is not constantly being tested and it's more an emergeny proceedure.
However Epic's recall is far and away the best because as soon as he could come out on walks I practiced calling him back over and over again, every time giving him a reward and fuss until he could recall even when running full tilt in the opposite direction. Twice I've been very glad of having put so much work in with him as it has prevented him bolting. Most of the time I will call the shelties back, give them a fuss and treat and let them go off again - when leads go back on they get more fuss. I also have worked at putting leads on randomly during walks and then taking them off again so they never knew what was going to happen.
I'm not sure how you are using the clicker - it should be a marker for correct behaviour not a means of getting attention. So if Storm is trotting off on a scent and you call and he looks back or stops of even slows down then mark it with a click. If he has been used to the clicker he should then anticipate getting his reward and come back. That is not the recall part though as you are simply telling him to start with that any positive response to you calling is good. If he completely ignores the call and gives no sign he has heard then the distraction is too great or he has got too far away from you so you need to take it back a stage and maximise his chances of doing it right. From a small response you gradually increase the criteria before you click - so from a head turned back you then wait until perhaps he turns his shoulders or even turns round. The more exciting you are and higher the value of reward, the quicker he will pick it up but there is no point taking him out for the first time and either clicking before he has offered a response or waiting for a complete recall before clicking.
If you put your problem into a new thead in the Training section I'm sure lots of people will be able to give you more specific advice. It isn't easy but you'll get there don't worry.
Caro
Moderator
I've moved your question into a new thread as there are a lot of members that won't be reading the shock collar thread who could help.
2GoodDogs
Forums Enthusiast
Nothing improves a recall like practice! Practice on a long line, practice pratice practice...
"Name, come!" I use a happy tone. Name (hello, I'm talking to you! - Come, that is your instruction!)
In puppy class, I have to go over and over how the pup's name is not the command and they have to say come!
I toss a toy or treat a few feet away and as my dog reaches and grabs it, I call "come" and back up a bit and they get a treat as soon as they return to me. Do this several times till the dog is running back to you for the cookie, when they get this game, they will return quickly, that's what you want!
It is helpful to touch the collar when you feed the "thanks for coming back to me quickly" reward, so they get used to it.
Other tips, never call the dog to come and use something yucky, like a nail trim as a reward...
Call your dog to come for an unexpected cookie when he's laying around the house.
Call your dog to come and leash up and go for a walk.
Keep on coming!
"Name, come!" I use a happy tone. Name (hello, I'm talking to you! - Come, that is your instruction!)
In puppy class, I have to go over and over how the pup's name is not the command and they have to say come!
I toss a toy or treat a few feet away and as my dog reaches and grabs it, I call "come" and back up a bit and they get a treat as soon as they return to me. Do this several times till the dog is running back to you for the cookie, when they get this game, they will return quickly, that's what you want!
It is helpful to touch the collar when you feed the "thanks for coming back to me quickly" reward, so they get used to it.
Other tips, never call the dog to come and use something yucky, like a nail trim as a reward...
Call your dog to come for an unexpected cookie when he's laying around the house.
Call your dog to come and leash up and go for a walk.
Keep on coming!