Help with socialization and immunity!

BarbV said:
I dunno

Parvovirus is not air born. It his generally contracted by direct contact with an infected dog or an infected dogs urine/stool


Personally, I would say its safe after their first vaccine, and as long as you are vigilant and keep your pup away from anything it feels compelled to sniff or chew

I can only speak to my own pet store, but we are also vigilant about cleaning up messes. They happen daily, unfortunately. And we have no way of knowing who is vaccinated or not. So we just super clean and watch any dog that comes into the store. But pet stores are a fantastic way to socialize. Your definitely going to be able to give your pups lots of opportunity to meet and greet in a fairly controlled environment. Definitely carry your dog, and don't hesitate to ask another owner if their dog is up to date on vaccines. Just explain that your pup is not fully immunized so you are being cautious. 99% get it. The other 1% you walk away

All to say, I would not hesitate to socialize in environments that you can control.
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Hello Barb, thanks for your answer! I can't tell you how much I wished I could start potty training her in the apartment complex's grass. However, reading this text from the ASPCA on parvo is what really scares me. Am I being too paranoid you think?

"Parvovirus is extremely contagious and can be transmitted by any person, animal or object that comes in contact with an infected dog's feces. Highly resistant, the virus can live in the environment for months, and may survive on inanimate objects such as food bowls, shoes, clothes, carpet and floors. It is common for an unvaccinated dog to contract parvovirus from the streets, especially in urban areas where there are many dogs."
 
20 years in the local obedience club, and the only parvovirus case I know of was a young Rottie puppy who was in he animal ER on Christmas morning long ago, when Sasha was there to be x-rayed for not bearing weight on her paw.

I have heard twice that parvo had spread thru two counties animal shelters and almost all of the shelter dogs had to be euthanized. That is sad.

My dogs live performance lives and we are going somewhere all the time. I guess I am very lucky we have not had any problems. I avoid dog parks, because I don't see many opportunities for good dog to dog socialization there.
I prefer a local owned pet supply store to the big box retailers, so don't go there often.
 
Personally I wouldn't risk parvo - it is only a couple of weeks you have to wait until she is fully covered so better to play it safe than risk it, parvo is very dangerous for pups. At my obedience club we don't allow puppies on the grounds before their second shot, even tho all member dogs must be vaccinated, because it is so easily carried on feet/paws from other places, lasts on surfaces for many months, is resistant to most cleaning products has a high mortality rate for puppies.

So avoid anywhere there are a lot of dogs, like pet stores, and places where many dogs toilet (like grassed areas).

I wouldn't worry too much about play dates - your pup has had 8weeks of play at the breeder so that aspect of socialisation is well covered. Another week won't matter. If you want to attend a puppy kindie before final vaccs look for one that has a sterilised area for puppy classes (often vets or RSPCA have them).

As mentioned, there are lots of ways you should be socialising your pup in this time - it's all about exposure to different people and sounds. You can do this at your home or other peoples', sit outside a shop or school with your pup on your lap or in the car. And the best thing about having a little dog - you can pop them in a handbag and carry them these places (that's what I did with mine).

I posted this link on another thread - it's Dr Sophia Yin's socialisation check list http://www.jollytails.ca/DrYinPupSocializationList.pdf
 
everywhere

Be cautious, but be reasonable:biggrin2:. Kaleigh went EVERYWHERE with me, I held her, but exposed her. She went to the rock quarry where there are BIG machines, to expose her to loud noise. I took her to schools where bells go off. Everything and anything I could think of that might become a fear or a concern, she went, either being held or in her softside carrier and if she was leery, I reassured her in soft voice so she knew she was safe and the world was a big place, but not to fear it. My vet INSISTED that I not let her walk in public places until she had her innoculations, I couldn't even take her to my mt property because there are many wild critters and he didn't want her exposed to anything until she was protected-so to speak. But in our area, people aren't as diligent about pet care as they should be so it made perfect sense. Even when she got "released" I was cautious, because she was smaller and I think I felt more protective of her, than my previous shelties. Get the puppy out and about, and enjoy this time of new adventures!
 
I live in CA. Parvo is BAD here. Since you are in Amarillo, let me just say my niece bought a house there and got a pup. They didn't know the house's previous owners had dogs die of parvo not long before the sale. Their puppy died of parvo. Their new pup was not allowed into the yard until after a winter and his shots. Their older dog was fine. I am thinking parvo IS an issue in Amarillo.

Again, socialize is really a misnomer. What you want is exposure. Sights, sounds, smells, travel in cars. You can do just fine carrying and/or having pup in carrier and just going places and letting the pup see, hear, and smell the world without touching any of it. A couple of us in CA did it this way this year and our pups came out really outgoing.

Think of it like a human baby -- you take the human baby in a stroller everyplace and the child sees and hears things from there. It is a safe zone to watch and start learning. As the child gets older, you toddle them around and they explore by touching and such and getting close to people and things in the environment. Same with a pup. Exposure from a safe carrier or being held when little, little and then on the ground a week after the shots are done (when immunity is complete). It is a continuum of exposure and allows the pup expanding contact.

Yes, it would be great to troop them around at 8-16 weeks, but in the middle of that lands a fear phase where you don't want them frightened and you have parvo and distemper laying around anyplace. It's a bit of a trade off, but it works well.

I say lug the little one around in a carrier or in your arms as much as possible, ask 1-2 strangers to use a handi-wipe and pet the dog for each outing (not overwhelming), take the pup where it can see other well behaved dogs come and go but not interact with them. You will do well this way.
 
Mom2Melli said:
I live in CA. Parvo is BAD here. Since you are in Amarillo, let me just say my niece bought a house there and got a pup. They didn't know the house's previous owners had dogs die of parvo not long before the sale. Their puppy died of parvo. Their new pup was not allowed into the yard until after a winter and his shots. Their older dog was fine. I am thinking parvo IS an issue in Amarillo.

Again, socialize is really a misnomer. What you want is exposure. Sights, sounds, smells, travel in cars. You can do just fine carrying and/or having pup in carrier and just going places and letting the pup see, hear, and smell the world without touching any of it. A couple of us in CA did it this way this year and our pups came out really outgoing.

Think of it like a human baby -- you take the human baby in a stroller everyplace and the child sees and hears things from there. It is a safe zone to watch and start learning. As the child gets older, you toddle them around and they explore by touching and such and getting close to people and things in the environment. Same with a pup. Exposure from a safe carrier or being held when little, little and then on the ground a week after the shots are done (when immunity is complete). It is a continuum of exposure and allows the pup expanding contact.

Yes, it would be great to troop them around at 8-16 weeks, but in the middle of that lands a fear phase where you don't want them frightened and you have parvo and distemper laying around anyplace. It's a bit of a trade off, but it works well.

I say lug the little one around in a carrier or in your arms as much as possible, ask 1-2 strangers to use a handi-wipe and pet the dog for each outing (not overwhelming), take the pup where it can see other well behaved dogs come and go but not interact with them. You will do well this way.
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Thanks so much Mom2Melli! I don't have a problem carrying her places in my arms! I'll take your advice :hugs
 
I am finding this thread even more informative than most. While I enjoy anecdotal debates, I also appreciate facts sprinkled in here and there. Facts without real life experiences don't tell the whole story in my opinion. This thread has both.

vickaaayhay said:
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"Parvovirus is extremely contagious and can be transmitted by any person, animal or object that comes in contact with an infected dog's feces. Highly resistant, the virus can live in the environment for months, and may survive on inanimate objects such as food bowls, shoes, clothes, carpet and floors..."
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Vickaaayhay: This is how I enterpreted the info I have read on the transmission of Parvo. I had assumed that it could be contracted by contact with a surface that had previously been in contact with Parvo and not totally (adequately) cleaned. I did not understand that it would take direct contact with an infected dog or his/her infected waste materials. That is why I asked about the potential for people walking through an inadequately cleaned area, then tracking the virus into a "clean" training area. Obviously, there are differing opinions, but the flow of this discussion makes it easier for me to decide for me and mine when the time comes.

Caro said:
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Personally I wouldn't risk parvo - it is only a couple of weeks you have to wait until she is fully covered...
...
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Caro: I think that this is a very important point. Its the old Risk/Reward argument. If I'm following along well, most folks who get their pups from a breeder bring them home at between 8 - 12 weeks. Most of the vaccine protocols I have read conclude the puppy cycles around 16 weeks. That means that the "bubble pup" cycle would only last 4 - 8 weeks.

I agree with the poster who said earlier that we really don't want to turn our companions into "bubble pups", but as others have said, there are multiple ways to "socialize" dogs. But, a little "over the top" protective behavior for 4 - 8 weeks just might lead to a lifetime of good times.
 
Cubby the "bubble pup" resembles that remark! Seriously, he is on his world domination tour now and doing great. He was started out well by a loving family, continued with exposure in carrier or arms, didn't touch a single surface at the vet's til the shots were done, played with my other two dogs constantly, spent time in and out of a crate, and is now a happy, confident, and healthy dog.

Seriously, there is more than one way. I would have loved to take the pup all over like little Flyer herding, swimming, visiting dog trials, etc. etc. But in CA, not an option for pups. It's too bad parvo and distemper have ruined everything.

I vote yes for a bubble pup with lots of exposure.
 
I think that I have learned something while watching this thread play out. What I learned is that while keeping our pups safe, happy and healthy is the #1 priority, it is also important that however we raise our dogs, it is important that (as owners) we choose methods that are most comfortable for us. If the owner is a "bubble pup" type, but adopts a more exposed type of handling his/her pup there is likely to be a negative issue of some kind. If Shelties are as intuitive and empathic as we claim they are, it is highly likely that they will pick up on our nervousness. Once a pup's health and safety have been addressed, the method of raising him/her should be the method that keeps the owner as safe and comfortable with that decision as possible.

I suspect that I will be a "bubble pup" type until a vaccine course is completed. I don't think that I will have a problem if some important issue forces me to adjust the "bubble pup" attitude, but left to my own devices, 4 - 8 weeks isn't much to pay for piece of mind. Following that, (to paraphrase an old Steve Martin comedy line) we will be "two wild and crazy guys!).
 
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