How to train for low measurements?

[Jess041]

I haven't really done anything with agility or anything else that involves measuring, but my guess would be that depending on how the dog stands, and how the wicket is placed, the measurements could vary by just a few centimeters. When your dog is right on the edge of being one height or another, you want them to measure in the height you want to compete in. I don't think it's a matter of "you dog's height is what it is". Yes, you're dog is always going to be the same height, but will they always measure the same height? No. So this isn't a matter of cheating, it's a matter of getting your dog to be measured correctly. But again, I'm not involved in any of that stuff (yet). Just a comment from the peanut gallery .

 

[take4roll10]

I haven't really done anything with agility or anything else that involves measuring, but my guess would be that depending on how the dog stands, and how the wicket is placed, the measurements could vary by just a few centimeters. When your dog is right on the edge of being one height or another, you want them to measure in the height you want to compete in. I don't think it's a matter of "you dog's height is what it is". Yes, you're dog is always going to be the same height, but will they always measure the same height? No. So this isn't a matter of cheating, it's a matter of getting your dog to be measured correctly. But again, I'm not involved in any of that stuff (yet). Just a comment from the peanut gallery .

Exactly. Depending on how my dog stands and is measured, she can measure anywhere from 13 1/2 inches to a drop over 14 inches.

Her measuring has nothing to do with other competitors. When you compete in agility, you're competing with yourself because whether you Qualify or not, it is determined by your run, not others.

Yes, placement (1st-4th place) is a competitive, but I think more people are concerned with qualifying... at least I am.

We've always trained on 12 inch jumps and I'd prefer Bailey to jump below her shoulder height than above her shoulders because I'm sure it less stressful on her joints.

If she measures above 14 inches, then she will have to jump 16 inch jumps.

Again, since she is on the borderline, I'd prefer her to measure under 14 inches. We already have one official measuring of 13 7/8. The judge first measured her at 14 inches, but then double checked and got a slightly lower height. Phew.

I didn't make her stand a certain way. The judge positioned her himself, but I did try to remove as much undercoat from her shoulders as I could.

 

[SheepOfBlue]

I gotta say it, why would you want to cheat? This is so reminiscent of pony measuring that I am cringing just reading it. Your dog is what it is. I can see why wanting to measure up a small amount to allow the dog to perform if it is physically capable but to measure down so it is easier for your dog than the rest of the competitors - well, it is just wrong.

cheating is relative. When he measured over 14" I had a hand under his belly and chest to get him to stand so it was likely high. So is that fair?

Also while I posted in agility it is for flyball where your whole team jumps at the height set by the smallest dog. So it is a strategy thing to get a small dog that is as wicked fast as possible to go along with the larger (hopefully faster) dogs. The rules are well known and the same for everyone so I do not consider it cheating. Lying about the measurement would be but that is not the plan. As a contrast Sca is 18+ so will never be the height dog so I really don't care what he measures (and neither does the rest of the team).

Oh and Spitfire has a LONG way to go before he can run but in the yard he is wicked fast and loves to zoom

IMO racing is about getting the most out of the rules as possible and then maximizing performance within those rules. Getting a dog to stretch or relax while being measured (by a judge) is within the rules.

 

[Justicemom]

I've never heard of anyone getting their dog to measure LOWER, but I successfully taught Neechee to measure HIGHER.

When standing normally at rest, he was 12 3/4 inches tall, which was 1/4 inch too short to compete in UKC obedience, since they must measure within the breed standard.

We were disqualified at our first UKC event because one of the other competitors accused him of not measuring in. Bad sportsmanship, in my opinion, as Neechee had just run a score of 198/200 and the accuser's dog -a beat-up looking pit bull- had second place at 180/200. It was a specialty for pit bulls (they were an approved breed by UKC) and a friend had heard him complaining that another breed shouldn't be allowed to win in any class.

I went home and, not knowing if I would even continue to show him at UKC events (turns out I wouldn't, as I found most of them were run under pretty sketchy circumstances.) I taught him to "stand tall". He caught on very well, except it backfired on me when he started agility. He'd stiffen himself and stand tall every time he even SAW anyone with a wicket coming towards him. <sigh>

That doesn't make any sense, the dog doesn't have to measure in breed standard to complete in obedience in any venue only conformation. Your dog could be 10" or 4" and still do obedience.

Now if you have that dog jumped the wrong height and someone calls you on it that could be a problem but UKC always rounds down so a 12 3/4" dog would jump 12". Ember jumped 12", she jumped 14" in AKC because they round up or down. Justice who is just over 15" jumped 14" He is a UKC Grand Obedience Champion so I completed alot in that venue.

 

[Justicemom]

Exactly. Depending on how my dog stands and is measured, she can measure anywhere from 13 1/2 inches to a drop over 14 inches.

Her measuring has nothing to do with other competitors. When you compete in agility, you're competing with yourself because whether you Qualify or not, it is determined by your run, not others.

Yes, placement (1st-4th place) is a competitive, but I think more people are concerned with qualifying... at least I am.

We've always trained on 12 inch jumps and I'd prefer Bailey to jump below her shoulder height than above her shoulders because I'm sure it less stressful on her joints.

If she measures above 14 inches, then she will have to jump 16 inch jumps.

Again, since she is on the borderline, I'd prefer her to measure under 14 inches. We already have one official measuring of 13 7/8. The judge first measured her at 14 inches, but then double checked and got a slightly lower height. Phew.

I didn't make her stand a certain way. The judge positioned her himself, but I did try to remove as much undercoat from her shoulders as I could.

Exactly it is better for them physically in the long run. If I had a dog that was on the edge I would rather they jump to lower height. I don't think that it cheating. I think that is smart for the health of the dog. They really can measure up or down write alot depending on if they are relaxed or tense so teaching them to relax and get measure ensures a proper measuement.

Diva's 2nd measurement she was worried about the wicket and the judge got her at 12 3/4" is that the height that she is-No The 3rd measurement, she needed 3 because the first was under 2yr, was 13 5/8" a more accurate reflexion of her height but she was still tense but arched and still not her height. A nice relaxed stance, I get her at 13 1/2. It all didn't matter because the cutoff was 14"

 

[SheepOfBlue]

In contrast it does matter in Flyball. NAFA is the shortest dog minus 5 inches with a minimum of 7 inch jump height. So if he is less than 14 he sets the bar at 8 inches (well actually the wall )

Of course U-Fli is utterly different, they measure the length of part of the dogs leg. It is actually a bit more fair to the dogs with stub legs on big bodies (like a Corgie) But they almost never run here.

Some good suggestions though. I plan on remeasuring him this weekend if the line is low (we are playing not racing so I don't want to get in anyones way). Who knows maybe I will measure Sca ..... to confirm HUGE

 

[corbinam]

In agility I've found that it totally depends on the judge. I've seen some seriously tall shelties (mine are basically right at the cutoff--15.75" and 15.5") that are in our same height class.

I have never asked, but I know I've seen some 17" shelties who received very generous measurements to allow them to jump at 16" (that's the cutoff for USDAA). People will actually seek out certain judges who are "kinder" and know that these people don't want to ask their dogs to jump at a higher jump height.

Of course, I would be lying if I said it didn't bother me a little bit to be running against dogs that are 1" or more taller than mine. It has never really mattered (because I haven't competed at the national level), but it still bugs me a little bit.

I understand the desire to ask less physically of your dog (if I had a 17" sheltie I wouldn't want to jump them at 22"), but I also would be totally fine with running them in performance (where they are allowed to jump a jump height lower, at 16").

 

[Jaynie]

That doesn't make any sense, the dog doesn't have to measure in breed standard to complete in obedience in any venue only conformation. Your dog could be 10" or 4" and still do obedience.

Now if you have that dog jumped the wrong height and someone calls you on it that could be a problem but UKC always rounds down so a 12 3/4" dog would jump 12". Ember jumped 12", she jumped 14" in AKC because they round up or down. Justice who is just over 15" jumped 14" He is a UKC Grand Obedience Champion so I completed alot in that venue.

Dr. Shelli - This was way back in the early 90's. It was a United Kennel Club show, which was a new organization to us down here in Georgia, and none of us (our obedience class competed as a group) understood the rules too well. And yes, they did disqualify my dog because he was 1/4 inch too short - seemed pretty pointless to me since we'd already done our exercises and were in the lead for 1st place in their equivalent to Novice A. I really was kind of lost that day - the show took place in a very old 2 level parking garage (lots of covered space) and no one seemed to be in charge. I could never even manage to get an obedience rule book. And, of course, they had no jumps in Novice A, so I don't know why the heck it mattered, anyway.

 

[Justicemom]

Dr. Shelli - This was way back in the early 90's. It was a United Kennel Club show, which was a new organization to us down here in Georgia, and none of us (our obedience class competed as a group) understood the rules too well. And yes, they did disqualify my dog because he was 1/4 inch too short - seemed pretty pointless to me since we'd already done our exercises and were in the lead for 1st place in their equivalent to Novice A. I really was kind of lost that day - the show took place in a very old 2 level parking garage (lots of covered space) and no one seemed to be in charge. I could never even manage to get an obedience rule book. And, of course, they had no jumps in Novice A, so I don't know why the heck it mattered, anyway.

How strange. Well I guess it has changed alot since then. But lets just say the APBT owner are still the same. Met quite a few at premier went I took Justice and all I can say is wow. No wonder the dogs have such a bad rap with owner like them. We don't have many competing here in MN.

 

[danisgoat]

I gotta say it, why would you want to cheat? This is so reminiscent of pony measuring that I am cringing just reading it. Your dog is what it is. I can see why wanting to measure up a small amount to allow the dog to perform if it is physically capable but to measure down so it is easier for your dog than the rest of the competitors - well, it is just wrong.

When you compete in agility, the measuring can be so different between the different people who measure your dog. The problem is....if your dog is right at or under 14 inches, such as Bailey and Dandie are, that means the difference of jumping 12 inches or 16 inches. I get measurements that vary almost 1/4 - 1/2 inch.

And, I am sorry, but if my dog is right around 14 inches, why would I want to stress her joints out having her jump 16 because of some person's measurements.

I guess you kind of have to be in the sport to understand.

We only want what is fair and better for the dogs in the long run