How would you handle this?

Alright, here's the video of what we learned last night. Now, I know that this exercise was just an EXAMPLE of where this position could be used. It is not exclusionary, and could be used in different situations (not just this one).

However, I found that it was awkward and extremely difficult to get into position with a fast dog like Lexi. I was able to teach her to slow down, collect, and get into position, but I'm not sure that it saved me any time (even with Lexi's wide, extended jumping in Option A). I also felt that I needed to babysit the tunnel entry more with Option B, where with Option A I could send her to the tunnel and move away faster.

What do you guys think? Also, feel free to try it out. It's harder than it looks! I think it would be easier to do with a slower, shorter strided dog (like Bentley).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL-YmLMzQjg

(I also added a drawing...green handler, red dog)
 

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if I would want to have an advantage at the tunnel (not to be too far behind), like you have on the last video, I would always handle it with running between jump 3 and 4, use my right hand at jump 3 to signal my dog to come there and send him in my bag at jump 4, use right hand to show to go to my right side and that's it.

the problem you see in the video is, that the dog knows pretty late what comes next, when you stand at the left side of jump 4.
if the right entrance of the tunnel would be positioned where actually the left one is, it would make more sence for me to handle it that way ;)
 
lunatic face said:
if the right entrance of the tunnel would be positioned where actually the left one is, it would make more sence for me to handle it that way ;)
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly! It would make most sense if it actually were set up as a serpentine. But as it is you have to lead the dog past the tunnel opening to the second one.
 
(You got the video posted before I could respond to your first video. Oh well.)

Given where #5 is on this course, I would still opt to handle it by going between jumps 3 & 4. As Lunatic Face said, it is much clearer to the dog where they are going next than handling it the other way.

The best piece of advice one of my trainers ever gave me was "run in the direction you want to dog to go." To me, going to the left side of jump 4 is telling the dog you want them to take the tunnel entrance near jump 4 instead of the entrance closer to jump 3, which the threadle approach indicates clearly.

That's not to say the skill isn't useful since you never know when you need to do something like that.
 
Decelerate to collect, wrap with arm/hand low so as not to cue the dog to take the jump, and use eye contact. I would not make the cross... why burn yardage in this situation when you don't need to? And, by front crossing, and then having to rear cross the tunnel, you're just creating more work for your dog... and I think staying on the same side presents the nicer line for the dog, and there's no need for a lead change for the dog. If I have a dog with a tendency to want to go out and take stuff, a name check would also come into play (the number of decel cues depends on the dog), and then accelerate and send to the tunnel.
On your first video: you mention the wide turn. I think the reason it is happening is with the cross you are making, you are giving her yardage and she is taking it. I think the wrap with decel and no forward until she has taken the jump, collected, and turned would help to tighten her up. Also, I can't tell from the video because of the angle, but be careful of how much forward you give by how much arm you use to send. You'll also want to experiment to find Lexi's commitment point. If it's very early (and I assume it is), you need to start your decel earlier to get her to collect so she doesn't waste yardage. Those are things Linda Robertson pointed out to me when I went to Murfreesboro for a private lesson with her recently. I was having problems with wide jumping... and those were some of the things that helped to fix it. Immediately I saw improvement.
In the second video, you need to send earlier so you can be further down stream to make the push a little more seemlessly. If you were ahead more, you wouldn't really have the tunnel entrance open as an option, as you would already be around and pushing out for the tunnel.I think it would be a good choice on course if you are pushing for time, as the first option you tried burns more time, while due to the push over the bar, you would be saving yards by making your dog collect more. This second option, if you needed to get downstream quickly would allow you to be in a better position to get there more quickly (but again, you've got to be on it, and ahead. Otherwise, you aren't saving the time/yardage you're pushing for).
That option on video two would also depend on what works for you and your dog. My Athena will burn less yardage, and drive better with the push than playing around with crosses and wraps. I can FORCE a tighter path with the push. I can FORCE her to collect more. The reason is that I can be ON the bar there, and it's either collect, or take the bar or land on me. You need to experiment and find out what your strengths and weaknesses are to see what's most effective... and then train the ones that aren't nearly as strong. All skills will eventually have their place on course.
We did something similar at Linda's where there was a two jump serpentine headed slightly back toward the first of the two jumps down a straight line of jumps to a tunnel entrance kicked out kind of like the set up in the video with the entrance almost directly in front of the line of jumps. The push was the best way to get ahead and get downstream to keep them out of the wrong tunnel entrance, and beat them down the line.
 
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corbinam said:
Alright, here's the video of what we learned last night. Now, I know that this exercise was just an EXAMPLE of where this position could be used. It is not exclusionary, and could be used in different situations (not just this one).

However, I found that it was awkward and extremely difficult to get into position with a fast dog like Lexi. I was able to teach her to slow down, collect, and get into position, but I'm not sure that it saved me any time (even with Lexi's wide, extended jumping in Option A). I also felt that I needed to babysit the tunnel entry more with Option B, where with Option A I could send her to the tunnel and move away faster.

What do you guys think? Also, feel free to try it out. It's harder than it looks! I think it would be easier to do with a slower, shorter strided dog (like Bentley).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL-YmLMzQjg

(I also added a drawing...green handler, red dog)
Click to expand...



Seeing you handle this, I'd want to see you handle it differently. If you read my earlier post about going around 4 the "long" way, I'd try to make sure I was closer to the tunnel, to face and catch Lexi so it's more of a FC to the tunnel, versus a send. It seems like you being on that side of 4, made her slow down, you didn't give info fast enough (she is about to jump into you, yikes, had a run in with Koji that way, lol), and since you stood there long enough, I'm thinking you could've found a better position to keep her going and give her more info faster, etc.

Did that make sense.

i.e. instead of standing behind 4, you could've moved in front, done a BC and pulled her to the tunnel. Or a FC on the other side of 4, so she knows to turn tight AND you're blocking the tunnel (wrong end) and then you can send, etc.

Again. It's easy to tell you what to do, since I'm not running. But trying is the only way to find out what Lexi reads best.

This was a fun exercise, especially because we got to see you run Lexi. Thanks for posting this and for trying it out. Really, watching you run Lexi, I'm like, how would I handle that with Koji? What would be the best way to get speed but tight turns? Hmmm.....i'd have to try it multiple times, I'm sure, to figure it out.
 
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HopeShelties said:
I think the reason it is happening is with the cross you are making, you are giving her yardage and she is taking it.
Click to expand...

I gotta admit. My trainer tells me this all the time. She'll say, "why are you standing way out there? You're going to give Koji a ton of room to jump, versus keeping him tight". I always thought dogs were just supposed to turn when I turn and turn tight if I give the signal asap. But nope. I'm since learning that if I give him yardage, he'll take it. So I'm learning to not give him yardage and keep his turns tighter because basically, I'm in the way, lol.

This has been a big learning experience just reading everyone's ideas on how to handle. :biggrin2:
 
I just have to pop in and tell you how much I'm enjoying this thread! I don't know beans about agility, but I can see where that exercise would be challenging, and it's really neat to see how different people with different dogs would approach it to maximize efficiency. Very cool!
 
k9kreationz said:
Seeing you handle this, I'd want to see you handle it differently. If you read my earlier post about going around 4 the "long" way, I'd try to make sure I was closer to the tunnel, to face and catch Lexi so it's more of a FC to the tunnel, versus a send. It seems like you being on that side of 4, made her slow down, you didn't give info fast enough (she is about to jump into you, yikes, had a run in with Koji that way, lol), and since you stood there long enough, I'm thinking you could've found a better position to keep her going and give her more info faster, etc.

Did that make sense.

i.e. instead of standing behind 4, you could've moved in front, done a BC and pulled her to the tunnel. Or a FC on the other side of 4, so she knows to turn tight AND you're blocking the tunnel (wrong end) and then you can send, etc.

Again. It's easy to tell you what to do, since I'm not running. But trying is the only way to find out what Lexi reads best.

This was a fun exercise, especially because we got to see you run Lexi. Thanks for posting this and for trying it out. Really, watching you run Lexi, I'm like, how would I handle that with Koji? What would be the best way to get speed but tight turns? Hmmm.....i'd have to try it multiple times, I'm sure, to figure it out.
Click to expand...


You're definitely right in that my positioning wasn't great. That was the first time I got her to collect and land next to me without either cutting behind me or diving in front of me.

But, I'm not sure what you meant by your other options. I feel like I wouldn't have had time to get in front of 4, and if I did, my forward motion (with her on my left after a BC) would push her into the wrong end of the tunnel. But maybe I'm not understanding correctly.

I definitely don't think I could get into position for a FC on the other side of 4. By the time I had moved enough to switch sides I think she would be in the wrong end of the tunnel.
 
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