Is obedience dying as a sport?

Well, maybe not for agility, but for Rally, he just seems to love to please. I talk with him throughout our "run," always saying, "Good Beckers" whenever he obeys the command to be "With Me!" or "Sit!" I say everything in a happy, upbeat voice, using his name before every command (Beckon down!) and he just eats it up. Beckon really surprises me in the rally ring. He just lights up, trying to be "right." It has strengthened our bond so much.
 
Well, maybe not for agility, but for Rally, he just seems to love to please. I talk with him throughout our "run," always saying, "Good Beckers" whenever he obeys the command to be "With Me!" or "Sit!" I say everything in a happy, upbeat voice, using his name before every command (Beckon down!) and he just eats it up. Beckon really surprises me in the rally ring. He just lights up, trying to be "right." It has strengthened our bond so much.

but Rally is way more fun than traditional obedience. I know Rally was designed for people who got a CGC on their dog to intro them to obedience. But you can't talk in the Obedience ring like you can in the Rally ring or the Agility ring. That for me is a huge drawback because I do talk to my pups all the time- even though our recent rally judge told me to talk more:winkgrin: I was thinking that I didn't even have a chance to read the sign out loud because I was encouraging my pup.
 
Is Obedience dying? not yet but it's pretty ill.
the dog club that I belong to started as an obedience club over 50 years ago. Today only one member primarily competes in obedience only. All the other members who compete in some performance sport either do multiple sports or just enter obedience when they are somewhere where it's held with another event.
We just had our annual obedience and rally trial. We did have to change venues as we can no longer afford to rent the indoor site for the weekend. so we moved to an outdoor locale- horse arena with dirt surface. Late September in the south so our obedience member passed on concerns that other ob people told her at various trials prior to our competition- it would be too hot- etc.
so I would say that none of the hardcore ob people from this area came to our trial. my view- their loss as it was a great weekend.

to make some money to offset costs, we had an ob match on Friday afternoon. we also had agility matches Fri after setup and Sat after the ob/rally trial was finished. so we had many people that competed in rally and did the matches. we had some that competed in the lower ob levels. and few that were in the higher levels- but also did the agility matches.

Our trial committee last year had some issues with several ob people- various complaints about stupid little things. nobody this year complained- most people told us how much fun they had- so pretty much, my whole club was pleased with the way that things went. One said, if they had known that switching to outside would weed out the 'prima donnas', they would have done it before.
anyway, we'll try it again next year and see how it goes.

One last thought- did you know that Rally trials can only be held with obedience trials? not with any other event. I can tell you my club would definitely have switched to having Rally with our Agility trials and dropping the Obedience. I suspect that AKC knows that and that is why that rule exists:rolleyes2:
 
It feels like it's dying here...we can't even keep a level three obedience class going, and our trial ready, open and utility classes usually have the exact same people in them for years at a time. It's simply taught in a manner that is too serious - people want to have fun with their dogs.
 
If a trainer does not enjoy obedience, it is doubtful their dogs will. You can be technical or not with your training, your goals are yours alone. Amateurs compete head to head with seasoned pros, and those that reach the top do not seem to do so accidentally.

Sylvia Bishop taught me that you give as much of your your energy as you want back from your dog. That changed everything for me.

As for motivators, the shelties can do so much with just my voice inflections however, being walking stomachs, food is more of a reward than my sincere scratch, or thanks.

The obedience club I belong to is over 50 years old and I liken them to a nice bunch of not highly competitive folks who work hard to bring agility, tracking, rally, and obedience to the area. We can not compete with the private schools and trainers who do the most winning and very little whining. However, they are there, like a dangled carrot in front of my face, as I strive to know what they know and make my dog the best partner he can be. I've learned not to compare myself with anyone, for I've had dogs that made me look good, and humbled, and we all have varying amounts of energy, time, patience to practice our craft.

I won't let obedience die, not if I can help it. I do not care to attract the masses to the sport either. It is not a sport for everyone, but every dog deserves obedience so they may be a joy in their home, community, and bring sense a pride to their person. They have to live in our society, teaching them to do so serves them well. Trained dogs don't turn up in shelters very often. (I hope that is true)
 
3Stars, what I meant when I quoted Connie Cleveland was that if the collar pops aren't what you want, then try something else. I teach attention with a clicker instead of a pop.

Obedience is unpopular in today's society, epecially because it sometimes seems to be linked to the dominance therory coupled with punishing physical corrections. That isn't true in the majority of people I know that are training their beloved pets to earn obedience titles.

I like using games to play to teach the obedience skills to people as well as to the dogs. Relaxed laughing students have relaxed interested dogs. I understand all to well though, it is who is teaching the classes that will attract and retain the advanced classes.
 
3Stars, what I meant when I quoted Connie Cleveland was that if the collar pops aren't what you want, then try something else. I teach attention with a clicker instead of a pop.

Obedience is unpopular in today's society, epecially because it sometimes seems to be linked to the dominance therory coupled with punishing physical corrections. That isn't true in the majority of people I know that are training their beloved pets to earn obedience titles.

I like using games to play to teach the obedience skills to people as well as to the dogs. Relaxed laughing students have relaxed interested dogs. I understand all to well though, it is who is teaching the classes that will attract and retain the advanced classes.

I think you were perhaps talking to SheltieChe instead of me? I don't know who Connie Cleveland is :no:

I teach the same way you do - a clicker instead of a pop, and lots of games and praise (of the people AND the dogs).
 
Sorry, my confusion in who wrote what. I apologize for calling your name in error. Darn screen is sooo tiny!
 
It's really interesting reading the responses on here and although in many ways, obedience differs depending on which side of the Atlantic you are on, it does seem generally the issues are pretty similar.

In the UK, we have 'Companion Shows' which used to be called 'Exemption' because although licenced by the KC, they are exempt from the normal rules. These are run for charity, anyone can enter on the day with any dog, pedigree or not - registered on not. When I started out just over a decade ago, there would be Companion shows with fun obedience classes held locally on a regular basis throughout most of the year. This was the initiation ground where beginners learned the ropes and where hopefully, new people would have a go and become encouraged to take up the sport. Now, there are probably 2 or 3 Companion shows with obedience in the area during the whole year and generally speaking, the entries are poor - particuarly in the higher classes. It's not the standard being desperatly high here which is the problem. I think it is that most people literally have better things to do with their time than put in the considerable effort that is required to train obedience above a basic level. Even if they do try, as soon as they enter a 'proper' show and see the reality of even the lowest classes, they usually quickly become demoralised, give up and find something more fun and achievable.

The whole image of obedience needs a bit of an overhaul. When I was competing reguarly with Revel I used to stay over sometimes camping and about 7 in the morning there would be the 'top folk' strutting around with their collies, up and down for almost an hour - "close, close, close!" often clipping the dog under the chin to get it to look up, or pulling it tight to their leg by the collar. Is this what many people really want to do with their dogs?

Contrast this with agility shows where people are sitting round eating breakfast with their dogs looking on an anticipating a fun game or chase about later - which do you think looks more appealing?!

Rally is not as big here as in the US but it is gaining in popularity all the time and the comments I hear over and over again is that it is more fun and less demanding than traditional obedience. Our dog club, which until recently has been purely obedience, has adopted rally in a very big way and although I don't think it's for me, I can certainly see the appeal. It requires a well trained dog but not a robot, you compete against yourself and try to attain a target rather than trying to beat other people, the 'style' of working doesn't matter so any breed theoretically can compete sucessfully, the awards are realistically achievable with reasonable effort - and I could go on.

Even the obedience derivitaves of Heelwork to music and Canine freestyle are very popular now and I think this is because it is fun!! You still have the very highly trained dogs, you still have the heelwork and certain criteria which must be met but there is none of the regimented presicion which comes with formal obedience. It is also crowd pleasing which counts for so much these days.


Agility, heelwork to music, flyball etc draw huge crowds who can see the obvious fun the dogs are having - win or lose. Obedience competitors silently walk stiffly round with poker faces and dogs which do not appear to show any evident signs of usual doggy fun - barking or bouncing about -even at the end. Every round is more or less like the one preceeding it to the casual onlooker who cannot appreciate a minutely crooked sit or a fraction wide. It has all the interest of watching soldiers being drilled.

I was also personally very much put off by the physical damage which the more extreeme style of working does to the dog. No dog is designed to walk with it's head at a 90 degree angle to the floor and it's hindquarters in a permanent crouch. The hours that these dogs spend in this unnatural position must cause permenant damage and I have seen too many retired collies, which are not particuarly elderly, with crippled hindquarters at obedience events for it to be a coincidence.

I have also seen plently of people using eye watering methods to train for obedience and I confess, I did use some 'harder' methods when training Revel - for example the forced retrieve where the mouth is physically held shut around the dumbell until the dog accepts it. For Revel it worked, he will retrieve just about anything and still enjoys it. But I will never use that method again, especially for a sheltie, which are such a 'hands off breed'. Epic had learned the basic 'sit' 'stand' 'down' by 10 weeks after a very few, quick sessions with the clicker and for me that is definitly the way forward. I know that people like Mary Ray are immensely sucessful in all performance sports with clicker training so the results do speak for themselves, but equally there are plenty of top flight traiers very sucessful with old fashioned techniques and their dogs appear just as motivated so I don't think the training methods are really an issue in contributing to the lack of popularity.

Another mark against obedience is that to have any chance at all of sucess, you have to demonstrate incredible dedication to training and it almost has to exist to the exclusion of anything else. Very, very few people have dogs which compete, let alone are titled in more than discpline here. There is no incentive at all for confirmation exhibitors to even try at achieving a basic obedience qualification (other that the Good Citizen Scheme).

I think it does matter a great deal that the sport/hobby is appealing to fewer and fewer people as this will gradually mean dwindling numbers of people to run shows, judge and train others. Eventually, it could well be pushed out by more popular activities which draw bigger entries and crowds as this ultimatly means more money.

I am quite jealous that at least you have two forms of obedience in AKC and UKC so have a choice. I wish we had something similar here. I still love obedience, in spite of everything I have said. I love the training and yes, even the formality to an extent. Dressage is my favourite equestrian sport for the same reason. It's not about control, or domination, it's about forming such a close bond with your animal you can virtually read each other's minds and put on a performance so subtle it looks magical to onlookers! I just wish that each partnership could be judged on individual merit to a standard achievable by dogs of all shapes, sizes and types and that a good performance acatually resulted in progression and reward....
 
I have not really watched obedience at a competition yet.

I did **start** taking novice level obedience classes at my training center. HOWEVER: There is no into class, or a specific class for people just starting out. The class is on a drop in basis, which is great for people who have been working on it for a while. In our first class, Riley and I were soooooo terrible because everyone had been taking this class for about a year, so they were all heeling and doing everything close to perfectly, while we were bumbling through each of the exercises. We felt like complete idiots, and everyone was looking at us like we were crazy (they were nice though.....mostly). I only went to two classes, because I felt like we were wasting everyone's time, since I can teach heeling on my own (not like I was getting instruction HOW to get the correct heel.....). I did get some tips how to get straight sits at my side and do the figure eight, but we were at such a different level than the rest of the class it was ridiculous...

I'm sure if it is like this in all training centers, but the jump from advanced 'regular' obedience classes to the competition novice class was insanely intimidating!! Like Seashel, I LOVE dressage, so I believed that obedience would be right up my alley. Now I am not sure..... I would like to do it, but it is insanely intimidating!! Many dog people I know watch the 'finished product' of competitive obedience enviously, but are so intimidated by the training/competition aspect of it, that they never actually get there.
 
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