It's Mine!!!

OntarioSheltie said:
Ginny lives her life faithfully abiding by the official Dog Rules:

1. If I like it, it's mine
2. If it's in my mouth, it's mine
3. If I can take it from you, it's mine
4. If I saw it first, it's mine
5. If I had it awhile ago, it's mine
6. If you put it down, it's mine
7. If it's broken, it's yours.

She's terrible in that she steals EVERYTHING from Sadie, often right out of her mouth. Sadie is wonderful with her but will rarely fight back and even when she does, Ginny will still eventually steal from her what ever it was that she wanted.

Ginny knows she's being bad and will drop what she's stolen or leave Sadie alone (temporarily) when I catch her, but she's sneaky and will wait till I'm not paying attention to go on harassing Sadie.

Is there anything I should be doing differently? I try to give Sadie special privileges since she's older (She gets everything first, she gets more car rides, gets to stay up longer, get her leash put on first etc.) and I want her to stay above Ginny in the pecking order, but Ginny just doesn't give up.

Sadie and Ginny love each other but I don't want Sadie's fun personality to be run down by Ginny's persistent bossiness.
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Darby is just like that. We can give both pups chews and Darby will quietly chew his for oh.. lets say 2 seconds and then he will walk over and take Deja's. He'll then go back and sit on his old one while he chews hers..

Depending on how much she was enjoying the chew she may or may not go take it back.. oh and she's usually not nice about it..
 
Silaria said:
Well, I'm not sure if it will change the pecking order very much, but if you see Ginny doing something you don't want her to do (nipping at or stealing from Sadie), a time out IS in order.

At the dog park, leash her for the behavior you don't want. Don't pet her, talk to her, etc., just leash and ignore her for a little bit. At home, I would not crate her for the negative actions.
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I scold her or put her in a time out as soon as she starts bother Sadie, but she's fast, especially when she's off leash, so it's hard to catch her right after she's done the behavior. And I can't call her over to me, because that will just confuse her.

Silaria said:
The crate is supposed to be a pleasant place, not a punishment place. Perhaps you can put her in a different room and shut the door - preferably a room where she can't destroy anything.
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I don't punish her by crating her, never have. Her crate is for sleeping, which is where I put her when we're at work or gone out, when we can't watch her or to give Sadie some time to herself. Ginny loves her crate and I'm trying to keep it that way.

Time outs I've been giving her have been on one of two mats, or to sit at my feet until she's sufficiently calmed down.

Silaria said:
By that same token, REWARD the behaviors you DO want.
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This has been difficult too. She's very easily distracted. If I get up to praise her for say, chewing on her own raw hide instead of harassing Sadie for hers, she'll immediately forget that good behavior that she was just doing and go harass Sadie. Not sure exactly how to encourage her good behavior in this case...I've honestly been ignoring it...which is know is bad. :uhoh:

Silaria said:
Victoria Stilwell has used removal techniques successfully to break unwanted behavior. The biggest thing is you need to be consistent and quick to react to the behavior. If you can't keep an eye on the pup, it may be a good time for Ginny to take a nap in her crate.
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We don't get Victoria Stilwell's show in Canada. :no:

She is never out of her crate unsupervised. The problem with her is her sneakyness, she is very persistant in bothering Sadie, and its impossible to sit and literally watch her 100% of the time. She's a sneaky little thing!

Maybe I should try leashing her to a chair so that she can't steal from Sadie? Maybe then she might get used to not being able to, and eventually stop trying all together?

Thanks so much for the input! It really helps to be able to brainstorm other peoples ideas as well as my own!
 
Ooooo shes a puppy being a pesky poo!!

How long do you let Ginny be a pest to Sadie before you step in??? Have you tried just letting her be a brat and see if Sadie corrects the problem???
I heard somewhere that usually dogs will let puppies be a pest for a certain amount of time..I forget how old the puppy has to get before the older dog decides ok, brat you are old enough to stop it!! LOL

Ooo the chewies! I put 3 out ... Clancy lays on one, chews one and watches Abby like a hawk with hers looking for a chance to nab it..LOL But with the 3rd chewy out..he can't protect them all...so Abby scores at least one...what we do for our dogs!! LOL

I wish I could say Ginny will grow out of it...well...she might some of it..but mine are 7 years old and 5...and they haven't completely stopped...Alot of the times its a game with them tho....

About praising the good behaviour..you don't necessary have to actually go to her and put your hands on her to praise...a "good girl, Ginny" even from a far will get the message accross...

Any attention with the bad behaviour can be taken as good attention to a dog...so totally ignoring or just interrupting and redirecting works...I clap my hands really loud and walk right into them almost and get the trouble maker onto something else. At first this really makes them wonder whats up with the crazy human...but after a few times, they hear you clap your hands and they stop and look for you before you walk on them..LOL

woofs

Julie
Clancy & Abby
 
clancyh8sabby said:
Ooooo shes a puppy being a pesky poo!!

How long do you let Ginny be a pest to Sadie before you step in??? Have you tried just letting her be a brat and see if Sadie corrects the problem???
I heard somewhere that usually dogs will let puppies be a pest for a certain amount of time..I forget how old the puppy has to get before the older dog decides ok, brat you are old enough to stop it!! LOL
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I started out by not stepping in. Sadie will eventually snap at her but with no real seriousness and Ginny will back off for a minute and then continue. Eventually Sadie will start trying to escape from Ginny when she's had enough and Ginny will continue to harass her.

So I started stepping in, which has helped, but Ginny never totally stops, she just waits for a second when our eyes are looking somewhere else to try and steal something from her.

I don't usually let the dogs bring toys (especially raw hide) on the furniture. Maybe I should put a blanket down on Sadie's love seat and start letting her chew her raw hide there? Ginny hasn't figured out how to get up there because she's so small.

clancyh8sabby said:
About praising the good behaviour..you don't necessary have to actually go to her and put your hands on her to praise...a "good girl, Ginny" even from a far will get the message accross...
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Not with her, she still becomes distracted, which leads to being bad :rolleyes2:

clancyh8sabby said:
Any attention with the bad behaviour can be taken as good attention to a dog...so totally ignoring or just interrupting and redirecting works...I clap my hands really loud and walk right into them almost and get the trouble maker onto something else. At first this really makes them wonder whats up with the crazy human...but after a few times, they hear you clap your hands and they stop and look for you before you walk on them..LOL
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Telling her to stop works, temporarily, as does clapping my hands. She will not be redirected though, especially when she's trying to steal from Sadie. She just wants what Sadie has too much, even if what I'm offering her is better. I've tried giving her the better treat as an experiment. She'll still drop it to get what Sadie has!

She's one stubborn pup! :(
 
I wonder if what Ginny really wants is more interaction with Sadie. You know, the old any attention is good, even negative attention. In this case I think the leash may be your friend in limiting to her access to Sadie when she doesn't want to play nice.
 
wowsers...shes a pistol!! LOL

She needs a job...with that kind of energy and dertermination...maybe she could do my taxes?? LOL

I think your are gonna have to be just as persistant as she is...do your interrupting and attempts of distraction...and if she goes back at Sadie...interrupt and distract again...keep repeating til Ginny gets the message.

Its too bad that Sadie won't really tell Ginny off...I think coming from Sadie, she will listen and obey alot better....

Good luck!!

Julie
Clancy & Abby
 
OntarioSheltie said:
I scold her or put her in a time out as soon as she starts bother Sadie, but she's fast, especially when she's off leash, so it's hard to catch her right after she's done the behavior. And I can't call her over to me, because that will just confuse her.
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What about using the "coins in a can" or some other sound aversion technique that will startle her out of the behavior so you don't have to try to catch her.

Think of it as the opposite of a clicker, which is used to reinforce good behavior. This is a loud, obnoxious sound that startles them out of the bad behavior and they learn 'if I do this, this annoying thing I don't like happens'.

This has been difficult too. She's very easily distracted. If I get up to praise her for say, chewing on her own raw hide instead of harassing Sadie for hers, she'll immediately forget that good behavior that she was just doing and go harass Sadie. Not sure exactly how to encourage her good behavior in this case...I've honestly been ignoring it...which is know is bad. :uhoh:
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As difficult as it is, you need to really be alert, especially as they get into that teenage stage.

Clicker training is GREAT for this! The click sound marks the behavior you want so as long as she's in eye shot of you, you can mark her behavior. Just make sure you always have a small treat in your pocket for the "treat" half of the "click/treat" process.

If she associates the "click" for something good, it'll reinforce that behavior and, like the cans I mentioned above, you won't have to chase her down.

She is never out of her crate unsupervised. The problem with her is her sneakyness, she is very persistant in bothering Sadie, and its impossible to sit and literally watch her 100% of the time. She's a sneaky little thing!

Maybe I should try leashing her to a chair so that she can't steal from Sadie? Maybe then she might get used to not being able to, and eventually stop trying all together?
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:lol: I was going to suggest leashing her to something but I was afraid it would have the negative side effect of making her afraid of the leash.

The sneakiness is where the sound aversion and clicker may come in handy. It will let you correct or praise her from a distance.
 
Phebe*DD said:
I wonder if what Ginny really wants is more interaction with Sadie. You know, the old any attention is good, even negative attention. In this case I think the leash may be your friend in limiting to her access to Sadie when she doesn't want to play nice.
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I'd say that could be a definite possibility. Ginny seems to want Sadie's attention all the time and Sadie eventually gets sick of her.

Not sure what what else we can do about her demanding Sadie's attention.

My husband and I have been working on building our relationship with her. We've done a puppy class with her and I'm going to be doing an obedience class with her in March also. Perhaps if we can get her more attached to us then she won't feel the need to demand Sadie's attention all the time.

Honestly, I wish Sadie WOULD just be more assertive with her. When Ginny is in with my friend's pack of dogs, she KNOWS which dogs she can't push buttons with!
 
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