Learning bad habits from another dog
- Thread starter MissSuzie
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RetiredProf
Forums Enthusiast
I just have to chime in on this one.
For the past 15 years I have owned 4 Dobermans--3 raised from puppies and one adult female rescue. They were (are) fantastic dogs--very much like Shelties in their intelligence, intuitiveness and obedience. Sadly, I have only one now (Big Dee); the other three passed from medical problems (bloat) and old age.
When my soul-mate, Leather Marie, passed this April, I knew I had to have another dog. I'm retired now so home all day. Figured I could manage a pup. Criteria for selection: 1) high intelligence and 2) smaller size. I wanted similar brains in a smaller package. This old boy is getting up there, and managing a 100 pound Dobie in her old age can be a challenge.
Anyway, "Gus", my blue merle Sheltie, is now 14 weeks old and I swear Leather Marie is re-born is this little guy. Smart as a whip and good as gold. Big Dee loves him but I'm cautious because of her size and watch the two of them constantly when they're together.
On Memorial day weekend, my son asked If I would dog-sit his two Shih Tzus. Two more untrained, yappy, crazy dogs you've never seen. Add those two to the mix of Big Dee and the new pup and I thought I would lose my mind over three days. They never shut up, wouldn't come when called, and were generally a royal pain in my arse.
My biggest fear is that Gus would emulate their constant yapping and misbehavior. Here I am trying my best to instill some basic obedience in the pup (especially "quiet!") and I'm working against the tide.
Anyway, when he came to pick his two up, I gently suggested he consider some basic obedience training. Didn't go over well, but, hey, he's my kid. But here's the best: the very next weekend, he was called away on a business trip and asked me again if I would watch his dogs. I declined. As I explained, I'm trying to break in a new puppy here and devoting a lot of time and attention to training. I don't need bad influences at this point and, frankly, his dogs are out of control. He may be willing to live with unruly pets, but I'm not.
Long story short: he boarded them. My son is fine with my feedback (no hard feelings) and he admits they're out of control but it doesn't bother him. I'm ok with that in his house, but not on my turf!
All of this said, I don't have an easy solution for you either, especially since you're in your parents' house. I would suggest some training, though. Perhaps you could offer to arrange that and get your Dad involved in the fun. In any case, I would continue your own training for your dog, and accept the fact that good advice isn't always well received or taken.
For the past 15 years I have owned 4 Dobermans--3 raised from puppies and one adult female rescue. They were (are) fantastic dogs--very much like Shelties in their intelligence, intuitiveness and obedience. Sadly, I have only one now (Big Dee); the other three passed from medical problems (bloat) and old age.
When my soul-mate, Leather Marie, passed this April, I knew I had to have another dog. I'm retired now so home all day. Figured I could manage a pup. Criteria for selection: 1) high intelligence and 2) smaller size. I wanted similar brains in a smaller package. This old boy is getting up there, and managing a 100 pound Dobie in her old age can be a challenge.
Anyway, "Gus", my blue merle Sheltie, is now 14 weeks old and I swear Leather Marie is re-born is this little guy. Smart as a whip and good as gold. Big Dee loves him but I'm cautious because of her size and watch the two of them constantly when they're together.
On Memorial day weekend, my son asked If I would dog-sit his two Shih Tzus. Two more untrained, yappy, crazy dogs you've never seen. Add those two to the mix of Big Dee and the new pup and I thought I would lose my mind over three days. They never shut up, wouldn't come when called, and were generally a royal pain in my arse.
My biggest fear is that Gus would emulate their constant yapping and misbehavior. Here I am trying my best to instill some basic obedience in the pup (especially "quiet!") and I'm working against the tide.
Anyway, when he came to pick his two up, I gently suggested he consider some basic obedience training. Didn't go over well, but, hey, he's my kid. But here's the best: the very next weekend, he was called away on a business trip and asked me again if I would watch his dogs. I declined. As I explained, I'm trying to break in a new puppy here and devoting a lot of time and attention to training. I don't need bad influences at this point and, frankly, his dogs are out of control. He may be willing to live with unruly pets, but I'm not.
Long story short: he boarded them. My son is fine with my feedback (no hard feelings) and he admits they're out of control but it doesn't bother him. I'm ok with that in his house, but not on my turf!
All of this said, I don't have an easy solution for you either, especially since you're in your parents' house. I would suggest some training, though. Perhaps you could offer to arrange that and get your Dad involved in the fun. In any case, I would continue your own training for your dog, and accept the fact that good advice isn't always well received or taken.
RetiredProf, I can certainly sympathize with your weekend with the "grand-dogs." I just wish I could send Lucy home, but unfortunately I'm in her home!
I have been trying to train her some. I've taught her to sit, and make her sit for her dinner, something Dad never did. Also, my living space is in the finished attic. Both dogs race up and down the stairs everytime I go up or down. They've almost knocked me over more than once. So I'm training them to stay, either at the bottom if I'm going up, or at the top if I'm going down. Once I'm where I'm supposed to be, I release them. Meggie has already realized she has to stay, even without me telling her. But Lucy tries to come up/down before she is released. If she does, then Meggie sometimes follows. I'm still working on it but I'm happy with their progress.
The problem when she's barking is she is so excited/agitated that I can't even get her attention. I'm going to keep trying!
I have been trying to train her some. I've taught her to sit, and make her sit for her dinner, something Dad never did. Also, my living space is in the finished attic. Both dogs race up and down the stairs everytime I go up or down. They've almost knocked me over more than once. So I'm training them to stay, either at the bottom if I'm going up, or at the top if I'm going down. Once I'm where I'm supposed to be, I release them. Meggie has already realized she has to stay, even without me telling her. But Lucy tries to come up/down before she is released. If she does, then Meggie sometimes follows. I'm still working on it but I'm happy with their progress.
The problem when she's barking is she is so excited/agitated that I can't even get her attention. I'm going to keep trying!
Caro
Moderator
I saw an excellent episode of "its me or the dog" where Victoria trained 5 Chi to stop barking and urinating (and attacking the Bulldog) so it can be done. I will watch it again over the weekend and tell you what she did (I taped the series).
As for learning bad behaviour - dont I know it. Mine not only pick it up from each other but also from the group of dogs we hang with several times a week. In fact it has been driving me around the bend lately as they are building on each others naughtiness. Like Tully barks at cars then Deska barks and spins at cars, so then Tully barked and threw herself at cars and now Deska chases cars. What a nightmare.
As for learning bad behaviour - dont I know it. Mine not only pick it up from each other but also from the group of dogs we hang with several times a week. In fact it has been driving me around the bend lately as they are building on each others naughtiness. Like Tully barks at cars then Deska barks and spins at cars, so then Tully barked and threw herself at cars and now Deska chases cars. What a nightmare.
HopeShelties
Forums Enthusiast
Frustrating, isn't it? I have to be careful around my friends shelties. As much as I love my friend, and her dogs, there are certain things that she allows that I don't which have become a problem. Hers are allowed to be possessive over her, and any bones/toys they have, and can snap at each other without a correction. Mine are not allowed to do that. It seems after being around hers for extended periods (we travel together to shows) mine will push the limits at home for a while. I kind of feel like it's muddying the waters on what is and isn't acceptable.
RetiredProf
Forums Enthusiast
I'm reading all our posts and thinking: so how do we deal with these influences? We can't be unsocial and not allow our dogs to mingle with others. What do we do? I want Gus to be able to play and interact with my son's dogs, but I don't want a Shih Tzu when I come home after Thanksgiving.
*Caro, I couldn't help but chuckle after reading your response. It's like your dogs are trying to "one up" each other. I can just picture it. Believe me though, I know it's not funny!
HopeShelties, it's nice to know I'm not alone and that Meggie isn't anything other than perfectly normal in her desire to do as Lucy does! I totally get the "muddying the waters" comment though. I can so relate! If only I could take Meggie out of the situation, I just don't have an alternative at this point.
HopeShelties, it's nice to know I'm not alone and that Meggie isn't anything other than perfectly normal in her desire to do as Lucy does! I totally get the "muddying the waters" comment though. I can so relate! If only I could take Meggie out of the situation, I just don't have an alternative at this point.
Maybe you work with Lucy by herself a few minutes a couple or three times a day, with the basics, sit, come, and praising her when she is quiet. Letting her know that YOU are the alpha, in the house. Spending a little one on one with her. I know that it's tough situation as she is your Dad's dog, but if you are the one feeding and exercising her, you have enough right to demand respect and obedience from his dog as well as yours.
A friend of mine suggested with the barking dog to when they are quiet. Giving them a treat and saying 'Good Quiet' find situations to do it, not when they have been barking and when they stop, just doing it on the spur of the moment. This is what she did with hers and they understood very quickly 'Quiet' lead to a treat, and only bark when spoken to.
Something for even me to try with mine!
A friend of mine suggested with the barking dog to when they are quiet. Giving them a treat and saying 'Good Quiet' find situations to do it, not when they have been barking and when they stop, just doing it on the spur of the moment. This is what she did with hers and they understood very quickly 'Quiet' lead to a treat, and only bark when spoken to.
Something for even me to try with mine!
PitterPatter
Forums Enthusiast
The yelling just seems to stimulate a dog. Actually low voice with low tones works better. Unfortunately this is probably seven years of bad behavior that is going to take a lot of patience to change.
Sounds like Meggie will mind, so I would concentrate on Lucy. I am assuming Lucy is a small dog. You will need someone to play visitor to the door. You want control of the dog. If she runs around like a wild dog, then I would put her on a long light rope and then have someone ring the doorbell. The idea is you want to be able to get control of the dog without it being a chase.
So when she goes into her routine I would immediately pick her up. Start shushing her and scratching her around the neck. You want to calm her and change her focus. Talk to her in a “happy” voice. If she’s just too wiley to pick up, then get her to where you are holding the collar. This would be a good time to actually have Meggie in another room.
Only ring the bell once, otherwise Lucy will go into a frenzy. Someone rings the bell, dog starts barking. Go in pick-up and shush the dog while scratching her neck. When she calms down try opening the door. If you make it through that then place her on the floor with a treat. Let her see the treat before placing her on the floor. You want her focus on the treat. If you get to the point that you actually make it through the one treat, you will need another for backup. The chow hound (doxie) in her should really make her stay focused on you instead of the visitor. Start with a treats to get her attention. If she still won’t mind, then withhold the treat, but let her know you have them..
A faster fix is when she attacks the door is to put her in a crate. When she starts just tell her “no bark” or whatever wording you want to use, and then place her in a crate. No yelling, just pet her as you calmly take her into another room without people or other dogs. Just have a place set up so that you can quickly deal with the dog. If you are actually using a crate for sleeping or containing the dog when gone, this method probably shouldn’t be used. The dog may look at this as punishment and it will be hard to get her to use the crate.
Sorry you are having to deal with these issues. If you are there for just a short time, then I would probably just remove the dog to another area. But if you are there for the long haul, then I would work on improving your handling of Lucy. Lucy will learn to mind you even without your Dad’s input.
Sounds like Meggie will mind, so I would concentrate on Lucy. I am assuming Lucy is a small dog. You will need someone to play visitor to the door. You want control of the dog. If she runs around like a wild dog, then I would put her on a long light rope and then have someone ring the doorbell. The idea is you want to be able to get control of the dog without it being a chase.
So when she goes into her routine I would immediately pick her up. Start shushing her and scratching her around the neck. You want to calm her and change her focus. Talk to her in a “happy” voice. If she’s just too wiley to pick up, then get her to where you are holding the collar. This would be a good time to actually have Meggie in another room.
Only ring the bell once, otherwise Lucy will go into a frenzy. Someone rings the bell, dog starts barking. Go in pick-up and shush the dog while scratching her neck. When she calms down try opening the door. If you make it through that then place her on the floor with a treat. Let her see the treat before placing her on the floor. You want her focus on the treat. If you get to the point that you actually make it through the one treat, you will need another for backup. The chow hound (doxie) in her should really make her stay focused on you instead of the visitor. Start with a treats to get her attention. If she still won’t mind, then withhold the treat, but let her know you have them..
A faster fix is when she attacks the door is to put her in a crate. When she starts just tell her “no bark” or whatever wording you want to use, and then place her in a crate. No yelling, just pet her as you calmly take her into another room without people or other dogs. Just have a place set up so that you can quickly deal with the dog. If you are actually using a crate for sleeping or containing the dog when gone, this method probably shouldn’t be used. The dog may look at this as punishment and it will be hard to get her to use the crate.
Sorry you are having to deal with these issues. If you are there for just a short time, then I would probably just remove the dog to another area. But if you are there for the long haul, then I would work on improving your handling of Lucy. Lucy will learn to mind you even without your Dad’s input.