Life's a stage and my sheltie runs the show...

Classes will definately help, and a clicker may also help.
Yep, we're clicker training now!

If she is looking around then it means she doesn't understand what you are asking her to do.

Ohhh no, she knows exactly what she needs to do, because she's been trained to do it (sit, lay down, come, etc). I reinforced her behavior with a treat every single time she did it, then she learned it and did it consistently. I began to taper the treats because I read that it's like the "gambler effect" sometimes they get one, sometimes they don't- this is supposed to keep them trying, but Nova has learned that sometimes she won't get one, so she won't do the trick unless she's guaranteed a treat. She doesn't look around at other things, she just looks to the side, as if to avoid my gaze- in doggie world, looking straight in the eye is a challenge. She doesn't want that (she wouldn't get a challenge anyway), but she doesn't want to do a trick either, so she looks away.

I'm not sure you should think about the dog doing something because you are the boss. When you are training them treats help with learning and so they associate something good with doing that action.... and once she gets the hang of the trick try stringing out how often she gets the treat. Start with every second time and lengthen from there.
I've done that exactly- she has caught on and refuses to trick unless she is certain to get a treat.

Is the expensive food you are talking about dry food? Most dogs will prefer moist food over dry food. Try soaking the dry food for a while, warm it up in the microwave (heated food smells better) or sprinkle a bit of garlic powder or something smelly on it.

Yea, it's dry food. I don't want to give her wet food because it's terrible for their teeth. I brushed my last Sheltie's teeth and she STILL had gum problems from soft food. It's also more expensive (can't afford it), and harder to find healthy types of wet food. I put people gravy on her food once, and she loved that, but that's too high in sodium to give to her all the time.

Don't expect her to be too much like the sheltie she will grow into yet. She is still a puppy and still developing her personality, but it will come.

I hope so!!
 
wow, can i say, im glad im not the only one dealing with this right now. Our little man just turned 8 months old yesterday. he swear he has selective hearing too! :yes: i will tell him to come, or sit, and he will just look at me like "yeah, i hear ya, doesnt mean im gunna do it!" and walks away!:lol: we need to work with him on training without treats too. i think he is getting better at doing them without a tasty, but still needs work.

hahah YUP that's the same thing!!
 
You might also investigate what the other four are feeding when you are not there. She might be getting scraps and treats a lot when you are not there.

Good call. I had a talk with the fam before, and they know not to give her table scraps, and when I'm around, they ask me if they can give her any before they do. I think they might be slipping her some treats here and there, but I know they aren't giving her enough to fill her up.
 
Classes will definately help, and a clicker may also help.



Is the expensive food you are talking about dry food? Most dogs will prefer moist food over dry food. Try soaking the dry food for a while, warm it up in the microwave (heated food smells better) or sprinkle a bit of garlic powder or something smelly on it.

No Garlic, please!!! According to
http://www.risingwoods.org/OURFAMILY/THEDOGS/knowntoxicfoodsfordogs.htm

Onions and garlic (raw, cooked, or powder)....Contain sulfoxides and disulfides, which can damage red blood cells and cause anemia.Cats are more susceptible than dogs. Garlic is less toxic than onions.
 
Your doing fine, seems like they have their little phases. My two are not perfect, I am their work in progress. Shelties are really smart, and they will hold out to get their way, like a treat.

Just ask Lil' Lady if she believes, she is the Royal Highness around here.

I used to feel like I was a polly parrot around here, same words over and over, got your listening ears on today? When they were young, should have taped those words. Time and patience.
 
Okay, so, as the title so aptly indicates- my 8 month old sheltie is STUBBORN.

She has very selective hearing. Basically, if she feels like listening to you, she will. If not, she won't.

Here are some specifics:

Problem 1:
Trying to get her to bring her ball inside when we're done playing, or trying to get her to drop it at my feet instead of laying down with it/dropping it ten feet away from me. RETRIEVE IS COMPLEX BEHAVIOR YOU NEED TO BREAK IT DOWN IN SMALLER PARTS FOR YOUR DOG TO UNDERSTAND

What does she do?
She looks at me, looks at the ball, looks at me, looks at the ball, (so on and so forth until a squirrel runs by). Sometimes she looks away, up, down, anything to avoid eye contact, like "PFFFT yea right, you threw it, why don't you go get it."
SHE DOES NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ASKING AND IS FRUSTRATED
What do I do?
When I encourage her to "go get it" in a chipper voice, she looks away from me, from side to side. SOMETIMES she will decide to get it and bring it over. If she doesn't, I clap my hands and squeal and slap my legs like a special kind of lunatic. I have tried treats, but all she wants to do is eat the treat- she doesn't seem to make a connection between a ball in my hands (her toy, mind you), and a treat in her mouth (gosh that sounds bad). I have tried being firm, and trying to put the ball in her mouth (because you're not supposed to repeat your commands), but she clamps those furry little jaws shut.
STUFFING BALL INTO DOG MOUTH DOES NOT TEACH THEM ANYTHING

Problem 2:
Doing tricks without a treat.
It ain't Halloween every day, and Nova won't be getting treats every time she does a trick. However, without a treat, she does no tricks. EXACTLY VENDING MACHINE. And trust me, she does know them. Some of the tricks that involve strenuous effort like laying down on her side to play dead (life is so hard) she absolutely refuses to do unless she is guaranteed a treat. I heard that is not a good thing, because your dog should listen to you because you're the boss, not because you bribe them.
BRIBING IS LURING
What does she do?
She looks away, up, down, etc, and won't do the trick when I tell her to.
She also thinks that the trick business is like a transaction- she buys a treat with a trick, whenever she wants to. SHE DOES NOT UNDERSTAND YOU

What do I do?
I don't treat her for doing random tricks because I want her to understand she only gets a treat when I tell her to do a trick, and even then, she may not. But she's too darn smart, and has caught on, and knows now that sometimes she won't get a treat, so most of the time she blows me off. If I do happen to have a treat and she still decides it's not worth it, I usually just walk away (I know this is wrong, so that's why I'm here, to learn to do it right).


Problem 3:
Won't eat the healthy/so-expensive-you'd-think-it-was-made-of-gold dog food.
WHAT ARE YOU FEEDING HER?
What she does:
Looks at me like I'm trying to poison/play a joke on her.

What I do:
Pretend like I don't notice her hopeful stares for tastier food/disgruntled glare. Sometimes I encourage her to eat it, and then she smells it again, as if to say, "yep, it still sucks."

What I'm trying:
*Right now, I've got her enrolled in a "basic manners" doggie course, and I'm hoping that will give her some practice not in being polite, but in learning to obey my commands and respect mah authoritah. We begin on October 18th.


*I exercise her rigorously for at least an hour every day when I come home from work, and sometimes more. I don't think she's hurting for attention either, cos there are four people (my family) in the home at various times, so she's only by herself for about 6 hours at a time (can't be helped- we all work different hours).

*I mix the should-be-made-of-gold-for-that-price dog food in with the canned wet dog food- just enough to taste. This gets her to choke more of it down, but not by much. When she was a pup (<8 weeks old), the person taking care of her had her eating Kibbles & Bits.


I mean, I know it could be worse and all- with her running away from me and generally wreaking havoc, and I'm very thankful that she follows rules- but all those extra fun things Shelties rock at she refuses to do unless she feels like it. She also used to be really stubborn with things like going to the bathroom outside without me right next to her, but she's gotten over that so I'm hoping these hurdles are easy to jump, too.

I really would like to hear from people who have had stubborn dogs like this and know how to fix it.
SHE IS NOT STUBBORN, SHE DOES NOT KNOW WHAT YOU WANT BECAUSE YOU DON'T MAKE YOUR CRITERIA CLEAR

Although, I'm sure the neighbors get a kick out of watching me make a fool of myself in the backyard. :lol:

I put my aswers in capital letters because of computer limitations
Your dog most likely does not understand you. Just because you think your dog knows it does not mean your dog actually does...
Vending machine- you don't get a trick without paying for it, just as you describe.
Luring- how did you teach your dog? If you did "sit" by putting treat in front of her nose and moved it up until dog put their butt on the floor it is luring. If you don't fade it soon enough it does not transfer the value so you always stuck with holding treat in front of the dog's nose.
Hopefully your classes will be great help!
 
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