Light Boned vs. Heavy Boned?

k9kreationz said:
I just wanted to say....I wasn't saying your dog is overweight in anyway, he is what he is for his body type and height. Just like I could never be a size 00 like a friend I know and we're the same height (hell, I don't think my skeleton could be a size 00).

I was just saying most agility ppl I know tend to keep their dogs on the thinner side of whatever is "the right weight" for them.

It is interesting though reading everything. :)
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lol...I know - don't worry :smile2:

I'm trying to sort it out in my own mind, so my thoughts aren't as organized as usual.

I guess the summary is that I don't think his size affects his ability to perform (ie. speed, jump height, coordination, etc.), but I'm mulling over whether it impairs his ability to complete movements safely (ie. he has the power to jump 22", but I don't know if he can consistently, safely land at 22"). He has the coordination to turn on a dime, but I don't know if I'm asking too much of him, and so maybe I should be adapting by giving a series of advanced indicators). I think every dog has strengths and weaknesses, so it's a matter of building on his strengths and adapting to areas of potential weakness.

And now I really am going to bed :sleepy:
 
Okay. Just wanted to be sure. :)

BTW, will you be jumping at 22"? I know even with Koji being 18" tall I was told that him jumping 22" will shorten his career considerably because of all the pounding his body will take at that height. He can jump 22" easily, I have seen him do it, but I wouldn't ask him to do it all the time.

Is that the only height choice for your venue? That may be a consideration also.
 
Edan and CJ are lighter to moderately boned. Height to Weight, Edan is 14.5" and between 17.2 and 17.4 pounds depending on what day I put him on a scale. CJ is 14.25 inches and between 16.8 and 17.0 pounds. Any thinner than this and they are too thin - hip bones protruding, every rib noticeable when you pet them. At this weight you can still feel their bones (ribs and hip) but with just a slight fat layer between the bones and skin.

Edan and CJ were both the show prospects from their litter of 6. Edan was placed with me at 7 month because he was 'too small' for a male. His lighter bone and frame is very evident when you get him around other Shelties. (Probably not as evident if he ever met Bentley. :lol:)

Personally, I prefer a lither dog for Agility. Over the years I've observed, and taught, a variety of breeds and really appreciate the movement of the finer boned dogs. There is a grace there you don't see in the heavier boned dogs. While any dog can do agility, I really feel the lighter boned dogs have a better chance to excel at it.
 
I havent seen Starr so cant comment on how his bone is. I would guess he would be considered moderate which is fine. I have seen shelties built like tanks and they are what I consider heavy. You would need to see this particular person I saw in miami valleys dogs in person to get just how heavy they are. Ashley may have seen them as they are out of ohio.
 
I don't know but Leo and Toffee are like two different breeds!
Toffee is actually 'daintier' than Leo, lol, in more ways than one :lol:
But I can't compare Apples and Oranges because Leo is obviously been carefully bred and comes from a line of gorgeous, beautiful movers!
However, I am assuming he's heavier boned than many I see around here, but he could outrun, outjump and outlast them all, I am convinced. Very similar to the herdabout Shelties I see here, too, Tara.
He's all lean and fit, at almost 17 inches, 25 pounds. He would also have to jump 22 but I just won't, I find that ridiculous he's not even 17 inches, and I don't mind to special my dogs. Although once he has more training I have no doubts he definitely could jump it easily. He just LOVES to jump and bounce, I never seen a dog with that much spring(s) in his step, lol
Toffee's movement has always been more laboured, partly cuz he was too big, but mainly because of his built. His nickname Strider was very sarcastic, lol... for jump grids his stride was so small, it was kinda cute! With Frisbee and way more conditioning and loosing weight he's got a better and longer stride now.
But you should see Leo's legs, very solid and he's got the cutest big paws... So not sure if that helps at all, but I wouldn't count out a pup just cuz he's heavier boned, he could be a mover and shaker like Leo, lol
 

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Leo I would consider moderate in bone. Still a good way to be for an agility dog. And he is probably faster as his structure allows him to be.
The dogs who I feel are slow because of bone are really really thick and are built like tanks. They arent built for speed at all as they are just too bulky. It is like having a Thoroughbred and a Clydesdale and expecting the Clydesdale to be able to have the speed and agility of the Thoroughbred. They physically cant do it.
 
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HopeShelties said:
Leo I would consider moderate in bone. Still a good way to be for an agility dog. And he is probably faster as his structure allows him to be.
The dogs who I feel are slow because of bone are really really thick and are built like tanks. They arent built for speed at all as they are just too bulky. It is like having a Thoroughbred and a Clydesdale and expecting the Clydesdale to be able to have the speed and agility of the Thoroughbred. They physically cant do it.
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wow, thicker bones can't say I have seen one, around here then...
But I thought Leo would be considerate heavy boned, but I shoulda left that up to Shelli to answer! hahaha, I am so not a breeder, just going by what I see around here, tehehhehe
Big boned ones you're thinking of really must really look like pretty footstools, then as somebody said, lollll
 
BTW, will you be jumping at 22"? I know even with Koji being 18" tall I was told that him jumping 22" will shorten his career considerably because of all the pounding his body will take at that height. He can jump 22" easily, I have seen him do it, but I wouldn't ask him to do it all the time.

Is that the only height choice for your venue? That may be a consideration also.
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No, I jump him at 16" in NADAC. I was told the same thing as you - jumping at 22" would shorten his career. I'd like to finish his NATCH, and then we'll probably switch to AKC. For my next dog, I'd like to do AKC and USDAA - so my next dog will have to be under 16".

Personally, I prefer a lither dog for Agility. Over the years I've observed, and taught, a variety of breeds and really appreciate the movement of the finer boned dogs. There is a grace there you don't see in the heavier boned dogs. While any dog can do agility, I really feel the lighter boned dogs have a better chance to excel at it.
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Thanks for sharing your thoughts - this seems to be the general consensus.

However, I am assuming he's heavier boned than many I see around here, but he could outrun, outjump and outlast them all, I am convinced. Very similar to the herdabout Shelties I see here, too, Tara.
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From what I've seen of Leo, he and Starr do appear to share similar characteristics. Perhaps good breeding evens out the potential disadvantage of carrying more weight.

I haven't seen Starr so cant comment on how his bone is.
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Here are some pictures of him doing agility last fall, if you're interested. I wasn't sure if it's easier to tell when he's in motion or standing still, but there is a pic of him standing still towards the end of the album. You seem to have a much better grasp on this than I do, so I'd love your opinion. I really don't think he's a tank, though, so I should be safe :fl : https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152170399620601.919072.628410600&type=3
(ignore the bulldogs and Rotti - they're my friend's dogs)

wow, thicker bones can't say I have seen one, around here then...
But I thought Leo would be considerate heavy boned, but I shoulda left that up to Shelli to answer! hahaha, I am so not a breeder, just going by what I see around here, tehehhehe
Big boned ones you're thinking of really must really look like pretty footstools, then as somebody said, lollll
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I'm the same...now I'm off to google shelties that look like tanks and/or footstools :lol:
 
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