litermates fighting over rawhide and food

[mbfrench]

This is when I do believe in pack respect between human and dog. I would feed them either side of the gate with some distance between them and stand there watching for any body language. As soon as the start of anything - like a stiffening of the body, head turn etc - happened, I would growl, CUT IT OUT. You don't have to be loud, just firm. Usually it is one that instigates the problem. I would worry that this will escalate to toys, attention from you, greeting at the door etc. They need to learn that you are the decision maker. I am all for positive reinforcement but that doesn't mean I will let the dogs make a decision about how we are all going to live together. Make sure you praise the dogs if they look at you.

Amen!
Could not agree more.They need to know who is boss,and it sometimes needs to be clear from the get go.

 

[Caro]

Hormones and adolescence, I'm afraid. They go from being mellow puppies, to adult dogs and food is such a high priority resource they feel they have to defend it from each other.

Some days are better than others. Usually when they are more tired they are more amenable. If they won't listen bones are removed. I am the 'bone-keeper' and they only get them on my say-so, same applies to any food items.

Since I first had Merlin I have been careful to not allow stealing between them. They eat side-by-side from seperate bowls, but I always supervise and no one is allowed to check out the other's bowl until they are both finished. They have to 'sit and wait' before eating also.

But do be aware this is very normal, natural behaviour, even for litter-mates. Food is precious, even to a pet dog that is regularly fed and they will defend their resources. You need to step in and make it clear that no one is going to get their food stolen and so defuse the situation - or just feed/give treats separately.

I agree, mine did the same during adolescence, they are just working out their boundries. But you do need to teach them your rules. Keep separating while eating, if they have a treat keep them apart until they have both finished, don't let one do the stand-over tactics.

When you are feeding meals as soon as one growls put the food down (out of their reach) and turn away from them. Keep doing this until they work out its the growling that is stopping them being fed. With mine I started feeding them in seperate rooms until the silliness settled down, but even now they still eat at different sides of the dining room (altho they eat side by side when we go away). As Sophie said, food is a precious resource to a dog and its not worth having them on edge when they are eating.

Mine are fine now with eating together. My female will still be bossy around food, she likes to wait until my male has finished his treat and then eat hers in front of him. But gone are the days when she would steal his food or treats. It does get better as they mature, you just need to ride out this stage and be firm.

 

[SheltieChe]

Amen!
Could not agree more.They need to know who is boss,and it sometimes needs to be clear from the get go.

I agree, with what OP described it is likely puppies coming into their own and as they growing, they are testing boundaries what they can get away with. So yes, setting your rules and following them is a great idea. Overall, guarding behavior could be very complicated and difficult. It may or may not be possible to teach dogs to not have it.

 

[SheltieChe]

I totally disagree with you.

I have 4,that eat within a foot or so from one another.It can be controlled,and learned.

These pups here,automatically go to thier own dishes.I measure thier food,and usually have them set on the floor when I let them in from morning potty break.
They go to thier own dishs every time,they don't even think to wander to another.

When they are done,they exit the kitchen one by one.They all eat at differant paces.

So it can be done. I think if it was an issue here,the food would be removed from the equation at the precise moment it started.And not returned to the floor until they decided to eat in peace.

When treats are involved,we give to the alpha first,and follow the line downwards.
So it's:
Earnhardt,Trapp,Jasper,Mia.

This includes any type of treat,whether it be a bone,or popcorn etc. If I have all 4 sitting near me,popcorn is givin to alpha first,the rest have learned to wait thier turn.

All of them can enjoy a treat within the same room.Depending on what it is,Earnhardt is always the first to finish.Even with a tough rawhide.

The shelties tend to nibble. Earnhardt would not even think to step into another dogs space for a treat,he knows better.

With that said,in early learning stages here with any pup we are quite tough when it comes to teaching manners. They learn to listen to verbal from us.

No fighting,growling,squabbles are tolerated in this home.I can't possibly alow it,and I don't tolerate it.

I thought about it and decided it was important to stray off original conversation to discuss few issues. One- dogs are concrete thinkers, more like computer, white and back, i.e. it is impossible to teach them abstract thought "sharing is good for humankind, go offer your extra candy to that little girl in the corner, it will make you both feel better"... thus what you think you teach your dogs and what they learn is not the same. Your example shows that your dogs learned that their bowl of food comes with strings, conditions and expectations. Second thing to remember that guarding is not bad or wrong behavior, it is what dogs are, behavior as genetically programmed in dogs as herding and without going into great debate nature vs nurture it is hard to discuss but realistically I think it is impossible to remove/ extinct genetic trait like that. So management is the option. Whether it is human standing between dogs, or visual separation by placing different mats on the floor or gates, or crates, or different rooms, sit stays, walks one by one etc. It is all management rules created to manage the situation.
Now I know few experts in the field like Jean Donaldson is not agreeing with theory of abundance but I think it is very worthwhile to consider. I have seen 5 weeks old puppies stiffen up and stop eating when human or other dog approaches. So it all starts with breeders offering many dishes as opposed to eating from same dish to plenty of toys, chewies etc ... and follows the line. The less we practice behavior we don't want to see the less behavior will be rehearsed. It can go as far as putting special mailbox on the door with kibble/ treats in it so every stranger that comes it, "brings" more goodies

 

[mbfrench]

I thought about it and decided it was important to stray off original conversation to discuss few issues. One- dogs are concrete thinkers, more like computer, white and back, i.e. it is impossible to teach them abstract thought "sharing is good for humankind, go offer your extra candy to that little girl in the corner, it will make you both feel better"... thus what you think you teach your dogs and what they learn is not the same. Your example shows that your dogs learned that their bowl of food comes with strings, conditions and expectations. Second thing to remember that guarding is not bad or wrong behavior, it is what dogs are, behavior as genetically programmed in dogs as herding and without going into great debate nature vs nurture it is hard to discuss but realistically I think it is impossible to remove/ extinct genetic trait like that. So management is the option. Whether it is human standing between dogs, or visual separation by placing different mats on the floor or gates, or crates, or different rooms, sit stays, walks one by one etc. It is all management rules created to manage the situation.
Now I know few experts in the field like Jean Donaldson is not agreeing with theory of abundance but I think it is very worthwhile to consider. I have seen 5 weeks old puppies stiffen up and stop eating when human or other dog approaches. So it all starts with breeders offering many dishes as opposed to eating from same dish to plenty of toys, chewies etc ... and follows the line. The less we practice behavior we don't want to see the less behavior will be rehearsed. It can go as far as putting special mailbox on the door with kibble/ treats in it so every stranger that comes it, "brings" more goodies

Quite honestly...my dogs are well behaved.End of discussion. I did'nt understand a word you typed. My dogs don't expect anything in return.

They know manners,it comes from long ago when they were first brought into this home.Long before I owned shelties,I had many a foster dogs.Up to 7 at one time.All differant ages,and types.Even one that was deaf.

They all coexisted,and did extremely well. I pride our home to having 4 very well behaved,respectful dogs that know what is expected during meals.

But that is our home.Obviously one can look into many owners homes,and find alot wrong with a particular situation,and ponder the why or how do I fix it. It begins at day one,when the pup (s) are brought together. I don't take bad behavior lightly here,I can't.
I don't tolerate fighting,grumbling,snatching,or wandering.

I find our way of training from day one to be very successful.It works.We don't use a hard hand on any dog here,never have never will. The learned by being taught manners,and to respect us & thier canine friend in the home.

There is nothing but harmony in my home,its the way I like it,and its the way it is.
I guess all the theory you typed,may be of great advice to some.